THE ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN

[denishc]

Being slightly stealthy won't make the F22 invincible. In an out and out dogfight I'd still support a Eurofighter over it any day.

[ATI_7500]

I bet those F-16s flew without RWRs, ECM and chaff. If anything is dodgeable, it's the missiles fired by an enemy aircraft.

[Craig.]

dont compair the F16's record to the typhoons. i believe it has a 5 to 1 simulated kill rate over the F-16. The Typhoon F22 debate will run on for their lives. Best way to put it. The F-22 pilot needs to be close to a typhoon, fire its missiles and run while hoping the typhoon pilot is sleeping so as not to activate its ECM's. If it doesnt the typhoon pilot will know the F-22's location and is going to make it a very long day for him. In a dogfight i would take a typhoon over any other plane. overall i would take an F-22 as its never supposed to get into a dogfight. Ok i wouldn't as i still like the typhoon more. but you get my point.

[Antei]

I would like to remind you all that the F-16 is a much older a/c than the F/A 22 or the Eurofighter. Also the first Gulf war was mainly Mig-23's being shot down.
The F-15 sored 36 of the 39 kills in that war

[beefhole]

Old or new, flares or not(I SINCERELY doubt they didn't have counter-measures)-if you can take on five excellent air to air planes at once and pick them off with relative ease, that SAYS something.  

Pilots are rarely caught completely off guard by a missile launch, since they are normally aware of the enemy's presence, giving them time to react.  Not so here  Plus, like two of those F-16 kills were gun kills-not much an ECM or counter-measures can do to stop bullets.  The thing can just get in close, giving the pilot less time to react.

[Tequila Sunrise]

Back to the original question, Su-27 series hand down:

*Helmet mounted sights allowing for extreme off bore missile shots

*Modern Russian missiles are nothing to be sniffed at

* More agile....


Craig  8)

ps. F/A-22 as with any "Stealth" platform is only invisible until it tries to use its radar  ::)

[Antei]

I'm closing the vote

[Woodlouse2002]

Slightly stealthy isn't what I've heard.  I've heard the thing ****ing dominates anything it comes up against.  They've tested it against five F-16s attacking it simultaneously (all flown by excellent pilots, of course), and they said it was like shooting fish in a barrel.

And that'll be a test carried out by the USAF who of course would want to prove to the entire world how useless their latest and greatest fighter is.


[quote]  ps. F/A-22 as with any "Stealth" platform is only invisible until it tries to use its radar

[Woodlouse2002]

I've just had a shocker of a thought. If the F22 cannot fly in stealth mode with it's radar on, then how does it know where the enemy is and how far away it is etc? Does this mean that F22's will be blind intill they either get a visual or get told by a 3rd party where any enemy is?

If this is the case then definately Typhoon any day.

[ATI_7500]

I've just had a shocker of a thought. If the F22 cannot fly in stealth mode with it's radar on, then how does it know where the enemy is and how far away it is etc? Does this mean that F22's will be blind intill they either get a visual or get told by a 3rd party where any enemy is?

Most probably. But if you get the AWACS's arse, you'll also have the F-22 grabbed by the testicles.

Or they do it like the SAABs. One scans, the other ones in the foration get the radar image and the tracking information.

[denishc]

I've just had a shocker of a thought. If the F22 cannot fly in stealth mode with it's radar on, then how does it know where the enemy is and how far away it is etc? Does this mean that F22's will be blind intill they either get a visual or get told by a 3rd party where any enemy is?

[bm]

Nope, nothing stands a chance against the eurofighter we've got the deadly concrete gun

I think the F-16s were flown in the test by "Experienced F-22 pilots" from what I've read/heard. Didn't see the logic in that

[Tequila Sunrise]

lol concrete guns, I'd forgoten about that  ::)

I really dont get it though, the RAF is buying around 230 Typhoons each costing somewhere between 30m and 40m, how much can they really be saving by deleting te gun  ::)

[Antei]

I really dont get it though, the RAF is buying around 230 Typhoons each costing somewhere between 30m and 40m, how much can they really be saving by deleting te gun

Each gun a couple of hundred thousand $. multiply that by 230.............

[beefhole]

Taking out the gun?  You'd think they would've learned their lesson from our experience in Vietnam, even if the tech is better now...