Mother cooks baby boy over gas flame...

[Saitek]

But it will happen again and is very often the case by a repeat offender who should have been locked away already. There are too many cases of these so called curred people released who then reoffend to do something else gruesome.

For some reason I don't think people value human life today.

To try and imagine what this woman has done makes me feel helpless. Human rights these days is a hyopcritical conventional idea that protects the guilty, helps the criminal and totally excuses the mentally ill. Justice is denied to little innocents who couldn't even raise a finger to protect themselves in such a situation.

She shouldn't be treated, but kept out of society if there are no laws available to deal with her otherwise.

[Hagar]

Ben. I think it would do you good to visit a mental home for a few hours, that's if you can find one. They seem pretty thin on the ground these days.

I agree with you to some extent on the "human rights" issue. Some of the recent rulings on that defy all common-sense but that's a different subject. I also agree that too many potentially dangerous people are are allowed out in society far too soon on the advice of "experts". My opinion of experts is well-known.

[Woodlouse2002]

Just because she's not going to be locked up for the rest of her day's doesn't mean that she's going to be released back into society tomorrow. She'll no doubt live out her day's now in a mental hospital somewhere where people will try to help her instead of locking her in a cell.

Yes, science is moving that way Woody. Few people commit crimes therefore that = that those few people are abnormal. That means they have something "up" with them. Studies will then show this and research will show that. Then a theory appears to prove this idea and so on. I'm afraid that is where science is going. In 100 years time people will say your ideas are all dated and weird.  

I'm afraid science moved this way about two hundred years ago, back in the time when you could tell a criminal by his looks and when you could pay someone to sit out your jail sentence for you.

A crime is only a crime because the nations law say's it is. If the law didn't see something as a crime then doing it wouldn't be criminal. Would the people then still be mentally disturbed?

Delve deep enough and everyone has something "up" with them and just because you're not as you would see as "normal" it doesn't mean that you're mentally handicapped and laible to be a criminal.

[beaky]

There's definitely a gray area between "crazy" and "evil", but suffice it to say that if there's anything more ineffective than the penal system in America, it's the mental health care system. I don't know which is worse: the bad old days, when someone could be committed by a third party on the flimsiest pretext, surrendering all their rights so that researchers could drill holes in their heads or whatever they pleased, or the current situation, where revamping of patients' rights laws has backlashed to the point where family members are not allowed access to mentally ill loved ones, who are summarily stabilized with drugs (usually clinical trials) then released onto the street after being told to come back voluntarily for more meds and counseling. I know this routine well, as I speak from experience (I was not the patient, it was a family member). Almost every "bum" you see on the streets of America's cities is very seriously mentally ill, drunk or not.
As for whether she is "guilty" and should be punished, I suppose it would need to be established whether or not she was aware of what she was doing. To say she had an uncontrollable neurotic urge as an excuse from guilt would be like saying she should be excused because she was intoxicated or had PMS or post-partum symptoms. A line has to be drawn somewhere...if you know right from wrong, and you know what you're doing, and you do something wrong because it's easier than fighting the urge... well... it's a tough call.

[eno]

In some cases I would agree with you Ben .......  Mental Illness is used as a get out in some cases.
In this case as in several others recently I don't believe the woman could be held completely responsible for her actions.

You need to ask questions like .... Why was't she being supervised and someone making sure she took her medication? Why didn't alarm bells go off when she failed to attend more than one appointment?

If persons with sever mental illnesses, which can lead to irratic behaviour, are to be left in the community then they must be properly supervised... unfortunately this is not happening and this sort of incident is happening more often.

I do not want to go back to the institutions of the past .....but there should be the facilities and mechanisms in place to properly monitor these people.

I live with mental illness every day ...... my step daughter has profound learning difficulties, she is 13 with a mental age of 2-3 and this is unlikely to change. I would hope that after my wife, myself and her biologial farther are gone that there will be someone to supervise her, as she could, God forbid, do something like the woman in the story and she wouldn't even be aware of what she had done. Would you criminalise her?

[Saitek]

Havn't time to go through all the points raised. I agree with some of them.

Eno there is a difference between learning difficulties and mental illness.
You see people confuse this. Some are born with learning disabilities. THIS is different to mental illnerss. People can be involved in a car accident and damage their brain causing weird behaviour as a result. THIS is different to mental illness. The first is genetic and a defect. The second is physical and treatable with drugs. Both of these are very different to mental illness. Mental illness cannot be curred by drugs. It can be influenced, but not changed. The mind is not an organ. Mental people have a brain that looks the same as an ordinary person. There is nothing physically wrong with it.

Mental disease therefore, as it is not visible nor literal to touch, is unique, even doubtful and explicitly complicated. Perhaps another discription of it can be a "corruption of an invisble sense" which could be deliberate or a case of just not bothered or concerned. Simply void of any sense of wrongdoing and unable to tell the difference between good and evil.

Oh and Doug - I actually among a population of mental folk! From my bedroom window is the biggest mental institution in the whole of Northern Scotland.

Our of another window is a lodge for those with learning difficulties that have a freedom under supervision life. Then on another side of the house is a place for those with weird behaviour who look after themselves (I guess with extra help ready if needed but they live in their own homes). Now these latter two are very different from mental illness as I have already said. However, people confuse them.

Finally, I know people with mental problems myself. One person I know has a severe depression that got so bad he voluntarily went to the "New Craigs" (the Mental hospital) for treatment. It seemed to work and for a year he was free, before it returned. Not sure on the intricacies though. Another person I know is a really old lady. She was decided fit for being forcefully detained there for a couple of years. I knew all along she wasn't mental. She was just stubborn and had  a didn't care attitude to life. She was pleasent and wouldn't hurt a fly but very strange!  I knew her well enough to see through it all and although she was a crank by no stretch of the imagination I insist if there is such a thing as mental illness she never had it. She now lives in an old folks home. But that is a long story and I won't go down that one.

Anyway, thats enough chatter for now!

Ben

[Hagar]

Oh and Doug - I actually among a population of mental folk! From my bedroom window is the biggest mental institution in the whole of Northern Scotland.

Maybe Scotland has a better approach to mental health than the rest of the UK. Mental disorder is a complex subject & I'm not an expert or a doctor. I do know there are several different categories & know several people coping with mental disorders themselves or with their children. People with some sort of mental handicap, caused by a birth defect, accident or other experience often suffer from learning difficulties. Mental disorders can have many causes & I know some poor souls who will never be "normal" due to physical & mental abuse by their parents or guardians over many years. They are quite harmless with proper & sympathetic care & no risk to anyone except themselves (or possibly a young child in their care as in the subject of this topic). The worst possible treatment for these people would be to lock them up & forget all about them which was possibly the cause of their problems in the first place. This would be nothing less than torture of the innocents & they have already suffered enough.* Unfortunately, far too many of them are let out in society without proper supervision & expected to care for themselves.

Fortunately, apart from suffering acute nervous depression some years ago, I haven't had to cope with it myself or in my family. To suggest that mental illness is imaginary is offensive to anyone suffering from this terrible affliction. This is no doubt caused by some criminals & their legal representatives claiming diminished responsibilty for their crimes due to mental disorder in the hope of a lesser sentence.

I still say that most of the recent problems are caused by lack of proper care (many psychiatric units have been closed over the last few years) & the misnamed "Care in the Community" concept for people suffering from mental disorders, whichever category they come under. This is fine in theory but only with careful supervision which is obviously lacking.

*PS. Until rescued in his teens one chap I know was locked up for hours in a small dark cupboard under the stairs every single day of his young life for no reason other than he existed. He is highly intelligent but his hope of a normal life that we take for granted has been ruined for ever. There are plenty more like him.