Why NOT to teach

[Tequila Sunrise]

I think you missed my point, had it been accepted practise all the way through scholl then yeah accept your fate, but say it had been brought back when I was in say 4th year I'd have given at least as good as I got

[Hagar]

The problem is that in general terms the teachers have now lost respect of both the pupils & their parents. We had a few that couldn't control a class at all. They didn't last long & were totally unsuited to the job. I sometimes wonder where they ended up or if they left the profession. I remember our senior maths teacher, the man was a genius but nobody took much notice of him as he was far too soft & couldn't control the class. We most respected the teachers that were strict - & guess which ones we learned the most from? Of course, that respect has to be earned & it doesn't all come down to punishment.

I'm not a teacher & don't know the answer but it all comes down to respect & discipline - including self-respect & self-discipline which are probably the most important. You can't run any organisation without that.

[MattNW]

The problem is that in general terms the teachers have now lost respect of both the pupils & their parents.

I think you hit it there. There are two kinds of respect. One is derived from position and is adequate for many things but the second is respect that is earned. I've always valued the second type of respect the most. What's happening in schools is that both types are being eroded.

Efforts to restore these have only concentrated on the first type and those have been ineffective at best. Until recently schools around here had a "Zero Tolerance" policy which meant that every infraction no matter how small was dealt with with utmost seriousness. All this led to was making minor things into major legal proceedings involving the already overworked court system.

Nothing was really dealt with. Two eight year olds get into a shoving match and they both ended up in handcuffs and hauled off to the police station while their parents were called. Later they went to juvenile court and were handed a few hours of community service and put on probation for a year. For dicipline to work it must be immediate and this was far from immediate. Usually the cases took from 6 mo. to a year to adjudicate and then the punishment was so insubstantial and diffuse that the message was never recieved by the kids.

It isn't the punishment at all actually it's the immediacy of the response that kids understand. Caning or paddeling (as it's called in the US) is no more or less effective than any other dicipline but it has to be immediate and at the control of the person who is involved at the base level of the students.

By pushing punishment to the administrative level or even to the judicial level you create the impression that the teacher is powerless and until and unless an administrator or police officer is called there is no danger of consequences to antisocial behavior.

The author made one great observation that I think bears repeating.

Thomas: 'When I was a student, my teachers hooked me by their interpretation of their subjects but I don't think that could happen now because teachers are ordered not to deviate from the point-by-point lesson plans we are given. It is phenomenally prescriptive and the teachers are given no space to make their lessons relevant to the students.'

Maybe more students would pay attention if the teachers were given more latitude in teaching. I've seen the same thing here in the US. Everything is based on a detailed lesson plan that can't be diverted from. These are sold by corporations to the schools as the latest and greatest but the students only find them boring. Maybe if the teachers could capture the students attention by making the learning "hands on" and more "real world" dicipline wouldn't be such a problem because the students are actually
interested in the lesson.

[commoner]

[quote] Theres no way back to corporal punishment, if it were to be resumed teachers would find themselves in A&E. I know I wouldn't have accepted it and can't think of anyone else I was at school with that would*. I'm not a violent person but I will defend myself.


* having gone through school up to a point without any form of corporal punishment.

Craig

[Hagar]

I happened to spot THIS in yesterday's paper. It seemed relevant to this topic.

WAR ON CLASS YOBS Apr 24 2005

Ex-Army officers drafted in to beat school violence

By Paul Gilfeather Political Editor

TOUGH Army veterans will be sent into Britain's schools to wage war on classroom thugs who terrorise teachers.

The news of "Operation Blackboard" comes as shock figures reveal that assaults on teaching staff have rocketed over the past 12 months.

Desperate ministers at the Department of Education - inundated with complaints from terrified teaching staff - sent out a distress signal to Ministry of Defence officials.

And the MoD responded with a "guns for hire" offer which will see retired officers parachuted into hundreds of classrooms around the country. Fifty teams of ex-Army, Navy and RAF personnel have signed up.

As well as playing bodyguard to staff, the military men will drill 6,000 of the worst offenders in discipline and motivation.

A Whitehall source said: "Staff have enough to contend with without the added threat of attack hanging over them.

"Drastic action is needed and tests have shown that sending in hard men from the Forces really works."

Ofsted inspectors have drawn up a hit list of 200 problem schools. The worst troublemakers will be forced to drop two GCSEs, freeing up time for special lessons on how to behave. Another option being considered is to send disruptive pupils to boarding school.

[ozzy72]

Just take a couple of the worst offenders and nail them to a wall outside the school and the rest will soon get the message and behave
Oddly I'm one of the most laid-back teachers there is, but that is because my students have a clear idea where the line is, and if they cross it I'll rip off their heads and have a bowel movement down their neck

[commoner]

.......... and if they cross it I'll rip off their heads and have a bowel movement down their neck

...........LOL......see my point lads?..........teachers are far too soft these days..........commoner

[Hagar]

...........LOL......see my point lads?..........teachers are far too soft these days..........commoner

Maybe that's why Ozzy's teaching in Hungary. I don't think he'd be allowed to do that here.