The right to die

[Scottler]

Hagar, I agree that if we're going to go the death route, it should be with compassion.  But IMO, starving her to death over the course of 9 days (or more, she's not dead yet) isn't at all compassionate.

My thought, though, is this.  When is keeping someone alive ever cruel?  If it is against her wishes, then yes, you could argue that it's cruel in that circumstance.  But the only evidence that this is against her wishes is a handful of heresay, which in every other courtroom in America, is inadmissable.

[Hagar]

[quote]My thought, though, is this.

[X56SB]

how did she get like that. i cant remember. i think they should remove it

[Scottler]

To answer the question of how she got like that...

According to Michael Schiavo, Terri was bulimic.  As a bulimic, it is Michael's contention that she became severely hypokalemic, which is an elevated potassium level.

However, hypokalemia has other causes.  Even something like eating too much black licorice has been known to cause hypokalemia.

That said, no one in her family ever knew she was bulimic.  Of course, no one has any recollection of any broken bones, yet tests have concluded that Terri has had many bones broken.  

Terri's former co-workers have also said that Terri frequently came to work with bruises that she attributed to "Walking into a door".

And finally, nurses have submitted affidavits that report finding empty insulin bottles in Terri's hospital trash can, with needle marks on various parts of her body.  Interestingly, since insulin introduces potassium into the cells, an insulin overdose could also cause hypokalemia, and lead to this state.

It is this theory that leads many to believe that Terri's case should be re-opened independently, just to make sure that Michael's plan to kill and cremate Terri is as pure as it seems.

deliberately keeping someone alive when they're in unimaginable anguish & pain is extremely cruel.

 
According to Michael's team, Terri is in no pain at all.  If that's true, then why the rush to kill her?

[Paz]

 I'll just be glad when it's over, I'm tired of hearing about it.

[Hagar]

[quote]According to Michael's team, Terri is in no pain at all.

[Jester]

As far as the Terri's case goes, I fail to see why so many folks are againist gathering the evidence (new and old) to determine the facts in the case. Terri isn't going anywhere.

The questions I believe need answered are:

1.) What is Terris' state - PVS, or minimaly aware?

2.) Has there been abuse by hubby going on?

3.) How can a man be concidered a "husband" to a woman when he has been living with another woman (having two children with her)?

4.) Why are court orders and orders from congress not being followed and nothing happening?

For me this isn't about right to die (which I believe in), rather a life being terminated under circumstances that are questionable at best.  Let's sort it out, find out what the heck is going on, THEN act. There are lots of voices out there, not many of them are reasonable.

John

[Woodlouse2002]

3.) How can a man be concidered a "husband" to a woman when he has been living with another woman (having two children with her)?

After 15 years I think most would have moved on. The Husband obviously can't divorce his wife when she's like that. Seriously, if your spouse had been as good as dead for 15 years would you have not moved on?

[767-300er]

To answer the question of how she got like that...

According to Michael Schiavo, Terri was bulimic.  As a bulimic, it is Michael's contention that she became severely hypokalemic, which is an elevated potassium level.

However, hypokalemia has other causes.  Even something like eating too much black licorice has been known to cause hypokalemia.

That said, no one in her family ever knew she was bulimic.  Of course, no one has any recollection of any broken bones, yet tests have concluded that Terri has had many bones broken.  

Terri's former co-workers have also said that Terri frequently came to work with bruises that she attributed to "Walking into a door".

And finally, nurses have submitted affidavits that report finding empty insulin bottles in Terri's hospital trash can, with needle marks on various parts of her body.  Interestingly, since insulin introduces potassium into the cells, an insulin overdose could also cause hypokalemia, and lead to this state.

 
According to Michael's team, Terri is in no pain at all.  If that's true, then why the rush to kill her?

Ummm, time to bust out the biology book, dude. Insulin Allows glucose to pass into the cells. I think your confusing it for Hypoglycemia (low blood sugar). It wouldn't take anymoe than about 10 units to kill a non-diabetic person, and there is 1000 units in a vial. She would of been dead if this much was injected.(I know this because I am a type 1 diabetic since i was 6). I think this nurse(1 nurse, mind you) was a whackadoodle. She got fired, so what does that tell you. Having said that, I don't think she should die. I think she should be in the custody of the parents. How the hell does he have control of her if he is married to another person and has kids? Why would he care?

[Hagar]

From the amount of publicity this case is attracting it seems clear that many people have prejudged it. At a distance & not knowing anything but the basic outline it's easier for me to see this from a completely unbiased perspective. Even a suspected murderer on trial is regarded as innocent unless proven otherwise in a court of law. The outcome of too many cases seems to be influenced by the "Media" nowadays.

I think there are two separate issues here. The most important being: what is best for the unfortunate woman who finds herself at the centre of it? That is what you should be asking yourselves There seem to be two different lines of thought, that she should be kept alive or allowed to die & these in turn appear to be influenced by deeply held beliefs which make it difficult to resolve. (It's currently against the law to actually help her die quickly & with the least pain so that doesn't come into it. Imagine the heated arguments if euthanasia is ever proposed.) I can't see this argument being resolved before she dies "naturally" with or without any assistance to keep her alive so the question of whether anyone has motives for her death does not arise. This matter can be decided whether she's dead or not & the investigation can take as long as it takes.

I think she should be in the custody of the parents. How the hell does he have control of her if he is married to another person and has kids? Why would he care?

Difficult as it might be for them to accept, the parents have no say in the matter. She is presumably an adult & if she is still legally married her husband is her legal next of kin. It can be very difficult for parents to let go & while there's the remotest hope that she can recover they might decide to keep her alive against the best medical advice. Take the case Eno quoted as an example.

As for why would he care, many spouses would hope their other halves could find happiness in similar circumstances. I've heard instances of severely physically disabled people encouraging their spouse to find another partner with their full blessing. I've been divorced for 20 years but still have feelings for my ex-wife. If she had nobody else I would look on it as my duty to care for her & I would willingly do so. We spent 15 years of our lives together & just because you move on doesn't change anything.

[Scottler]

To be fair, Michael Schiavo isn't married to the other woman.  They're engaged to be married, and he's fathered two children with her, but in the US you can obviously only marry one at a time.

As for the insulin/hypokalemia relationship:

Glycoregulatory hormones: (1) Insulin enhances potassium entry into cells, and (2) glucagon impairs potassium entry into cells.

Definition of hypokalemia:  Hypokalemia is defined as a potassium level less than 3.5 mEq/L.

Sorry, I meant LOW potassium.  lol  Simple typo on my part.  If Terri's potassium was low, then it could easily be attributed to someone interfering with the natural process that occurs in regards to potassium and transcellular movement.

I'm not saying he is definitely guilty.  Just that it should be made clear that he's not before a life is lost.

[Jester]

Woodlouse2002 - Why can't he divorce her? If she is in the state that he claims, it won't hurt her feelings at all.  Her parents have said that they want to take care of Terri. Why not divorce her, let Terris' parents become her guardians, be the good son-in-law that respected Terri's parents wishes, marry the mistress, have a happy life with your new wife?

Every answer raises more questions. Before some thing that can't be undone is permitted to happen, questions must be answered.

In the end I doubt it will ever happen. The powers that be seem to not want to deal with this for whatever reason. Gosh, I wonder why?

John

[StrutterGunner]

I dont know about anyone else, but I just find it ironic that the protesters outside of Terris hospice that are decrying her long and "painful" death are the very same people who yell and scream at the very mention of euthenasia, which is what I think would have been the best answer for this case.

[767-300er]

To be fair, Michael Schiavo isn't married to the other woman.  They're engaged to be married, and he's fathered two children with her, but in the US you can obviously only marry one at a time.

As for the insulin/hypokalemia relationship:

Glycoregulatory hormones: (1) Insulin enhances potassium entry into cells, and (2) glucagon impairs potassium entry into cells.

Definition of hypokalemia:  Hypokalemia is defined as a potassium level less than 3.5 mEq/L.

Sorry, I meant LOW potassium.  lol  Simple typo on my part.  If Terri's potassium was low, then it could easily be attributed to someone interfering with the natural process that occurs in regards to potassium and transcellular movement.

I'm not saying he is definitely guilty.  Just that it should be made clear that he's not before a life is lost.

hehe, can you tell I wasan't paying attention in class?(too busy thinking about girls ) My bad. I never heard of insulin making anyone brain dead, though. Your liver releses gluagon when you get really hypoglycemic to balance things out. I remember a case when one woman was extremely hyperglycemic, and she had a large amount of potassium in her blood, didn't put the two together. I gotta ask you, are you studing to be a doctor or something?

[Politically Incorrect]

What I find disturbing in this whole matter is the fact that the Media shows about 30 seconds of a 7hour video taken over 5 years ago, this makes the ignorant public feel that she is ok, why not let the public see how she really is????

Then you look at her parents, I know if it were me in thier posistion it would be hard for me to let my child go but after 15 years common sense would kick in.
Then you look at the absurd things these parents are doing and all in the public eye, going court to court making public announcements, letting thier lawyer who obviously has no medical background make public statements about what he feels is her condition.
What this all boils down to is keeping it going and making it dramatic enough for a made for TV movie, think about it you know there will be one about 6 months after her death. Before this whole frenzy no one would care to watch a tv movie about her so they have to sweeten the script a little. Makes me wonder what type of deal the Family is getting for all this???
You wait and see for yourself, you'll witness a family take advantage of the situation thier own daughter is in and profit from it,

"Live and Let Die-The Un-told story of Terri Shiavo"

you heard it here first