Scrooges out to ruin Christmas

[Romulus111VADT]

In the end, we will all find out who is right and who is wrong. Some will be glad at the choices they made and other's will be sad. Some will waste a lifetime believing and be glad they did and other's will waste an eternity wishing they had. Life is all to short and eternity is a very long time. A life time of regrets is bad, but an eternity of regrets is hell.

[Hagar]

As I've mentioned before, everyone is free to believe whatever they wish - providing they don't consider themselves better than me for that belief & don't try converting me to their beliefs. I believe what I believe & quite naturally think that I'm right.

The reason I posted this topic was not to encourage religious debate but to draw attention to the ever-increasing number of organisations in my country that spend all their time looking for things that might possibly offend others in order to ban them. These are frequently middle-class white people who have not personally experienced discrimination themselves. They have the nerve to take offence on behalf of others who had in most cases taken no offence to start with. This is an insult to those people & as I pointed out earlier is liable to cause discrimination where none previously existed.

[Romulus111VADT]

As I've mentioned before, everyone is free to believe whatever they wish - providing they don't consider themselves better than me for that belief & don't try converting me to their beliefs. I believe what I believe & quite naturally think that I'm right.

The reason I posted this topic was not to encourage religious debate but to draw attention to the ever-increasing number of organisations in my country that spend all their time looking for things that might possibly offend others in order to ban them. These are frequently middle-class white people who have not personally experienced discrimination themselves. They have the nerve to take offence on behalf of others who had in most cases taken no offence to start with. This is an insult to those people & as I pointed out earlier is liable to cause discrimination where none previously existed.

This all to common place here in the US. Most of the offended peoples come from countries that would torture or execute them for expressing any sort of descent towards the government or established religious beliefs of the country in question. These same people come here to get what they didn't have in their native countries, only to use the legal system to try and make this country into a mirror image of the very country they fled persecution. We are expected to tolerate their views, but they are disinclined to even hear our views. We get the infamous, "We are offended by what you do". If this be the case, then by all means, return to your native lands and live where you are not offended. My question is that if you came to this country of your own free will and you are offended by our ways, why did you come here in the first place?

[TacitBlue]

Are you a negative (denial of the existence of gods, but there's a theoretical chance that they may exist) or positive (denial of the existance of gods, no possibility of their existance) atheist?

Negative I guess. There could be a god, But please lets not turn this into a religeose debate.  I was just saying that christmas isnt offensive, even athiests like myself like it.

[quote] Btw: Pledge of Allegiance.

[Scottler]

Custom, if you're saying it's possible, but you're not sure, that makes you an agnostic, not an atheist.

I don't think this is a religious debate as much as it's a cultural discussion.

I also think that taking Christmas out of things is deplorable...there is no right or wrong.  We all have our own beliefs.  Who is the judge of which is right?  No one.  If you were to look at the various religions, they'd all stack up to the same thing, we just all call Him a different name.

That said, when a Christian church is banned from the Christmas parade because it's offensive, but the gay and lesbian native american dance team is left in....there's a problem.

[jordonj]

Im an athiest, and I like Christmas. Plenty of us do, its just the few that give the rest of us a bad name - ie. that guy who got 'god' taken out of the pledge of alegence here in the US. I agree with ACE, this is rediculous.

Just a bit of trivia about the US pledge of allegiance...the words "under God" were not added until the 1950's.  The 50's were the McCarthy era and no senator dared to vote against it for fear of seeming Communist (religion was one of the ways we differentiated ourselves from the Commies).

There are people who remember the pledge before it had "under God" in it.

Sorry...no politics meant here...just a little history.

[Chris_F]

I too am athiest (thought I was the only one) and I too love Christmass.  The whole PC mess has gotten out of control (if it ever was in control to begin with.  There was an ad on TV around here that spoofed the PC objection to Christmass.  At the end of the ad they wished everyone a happy "Chrismahanakwanzaka".  I thought that was witty.

Christmass has a meaning to lots of non-Christians.  It's a great celebration of life and happyness.  It's about non-sacrificial giving and showing the important people in your life how much you care for them.  Even devoid of religous context it's glorious.  As a culture I wish we could celebrate more religous holidays, not less.

[jordonj]

Interestingly enough....our Universalist Unitarian congregation had a philisophical discussion on Christmas.  

The actual date of the birth of Christ is much-disputed among scholars.  This question was posed "what would it be like if the predominant religion had not chosen this time of year to celebrate the birth of Christ?"

I think things would be even more dreary.  It may be a bit commercialized, but it's also a time of spontaneity.  There's something about this time of year...

I have a feeling that those who want to get it banned have a lot in common with the new campaign to "put Christ back in Christmas"....all they seem to want to do is make the rest of the world fall in step with their belief system.

And to the politicians, it can be used to distract the public from the important issues (but I've already said that).

[TacitBlue]

Custom, if you're saying it's possible, but you're not sure, that makes you an agnostic, not an atheist.

I tend to flip-flop between athiest and agnostic. But as far as my personal beliefs go, I honestly dont see how God (if there is one) is having any effect on the world right now. so for all intents and purposes there may as well not be one, so "athiest" seems to be the best way to classify myself religeously.

P.S. Please, Please, PLEASE dont start trying to prove the existance of god to me. Ive heard it all before, Ive been told im going to hell and all that, it still didnt change my mind.

P.S.S. This is in no way intended to be offensive to non-athiests!

[Craig.]

Ive been told im going to hell

LOL join the club:) I'll save you seat, they already have my Penthouse furnished and awaiting my arrival. (its what you get for being the evil dudes henchman:))

[eno]

LOL join the club:) I'll save you seat, they already have my Penthouse furnished and awaiting my arrival. (its what you get for being the evil dudes henchman:))

You mean you've been recruited by Heretic  :o

[Craig.]

haha, no i mean the real deal. Ozzy!!!

[Craig.]

Just as a side note, generally these are the sort of people who would goto a Chris Rock show, see a white person laughing at some of his jokes and yell racist

[jordonj]

Sometimes there's a "rest of the story" to these things.

This happened some time ago (maybe 10 years or so)...a single mother had to move in order to take a job and had to put her kids into a school system there.  This school was in "the Bible Belt" as it's called in the U.S..

These schools had prayers right along with the Pledge.  Her children were repeatedly harrassed by the other kids and punished by the teachers for non-participation in the prayers.

There was a reason for their non-participation...they were Jewish!

The woman went to court over it.  The school board, when interviewed, saw nothing wrong with what was going on...even went to far as to say that if she did not belive as they did...she should not be there.

I know nothing about what is going over there about banning Christmas...here is just a case where there is a "rest of the story".

[Hagar]

So how did it turn out? I imagine that even if this woman had won her case she would not have felt comfortable keeping her children at the school.