About time

[ozzy72]

Well the Swiss president has delivered a rare written apology to his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, for a plane crash over Lake Constance in which air traffic control failures led to the death of dozens of schoolchildren from the Urals.
About time
This whole thing smacks of the lunatics running the asylum, defective computers, inoperable phones, insufficient personel. Remember flying is dangerous, adding ATC to the mixture is like looking for gunpowder using a match

[Smoke2much]

If you look for gunpowder with a match you are guarenteed to find it

It would be better if people were more willing to take responsibility like this more often.  It doesn't replace the kids but at least it demonstrates some respect.

[ozzy72]

Will no-one has been prosecuted for this
Its only because one of the fathers of a Russian family (he lost his wife and both children) went insane and killed the Air Traffic Controller with a knife a few weeks back that anything has even happened...
What kind of a world do we live in?

[Smoke2much]

[Craig.]

sadly it would be too easy to put the blame on the controller, but there are just to many people and problems to blame. Controllers are overworked, giving them extra money doesnt solve the problem. The equiptment they use in some cases are old like you pointed out. Both planes should have had working TCAS, and all pilots should have been paying attention. The question is, what can be done to prevent it happening again, saying sorry is all well and good for a quick sign of respect but if they dont sort out the problem and will be for nothing if it happens again.

[ozzy72]

Both planes did have working TCAS, but the controller directed them into one another

[Hagar]

Here's the findings of the inquiry into this sad incident.

The controller, Danish national Peter Nielsen, was on duty alone in the Zurich control on 1 July 2002 room, as his colleague was taking a break, the report said.

He had not been told that a collision-avoidance system at Zurich was not fully working as maintenance was being carried out.

The delay in noticing that the two planes could collide led to a series of critical errors, the report said.

The controller told the Russian pilots to descend, while their onboard-collision avoidance system had told them to climb to avoid the DHL cargo plane.

The Russians followed the controller's instructions and dived into the cargo jet which was descending in accordance with its own collision-avoidance equipment.

"This accident happened because many actions and failures to act came together that, viewed on their own, might only have a small significance for air safety," the German investigators said.

It was obviously the fault of Swiss ATC but I'm not surprised that no action was taken against them. Nobody takes responsibility for their own actions any more due to the modern compensation culture. People are afraid to apologise or admit blame for fear of being sued for compensation.

[ozzy72]

People are afraid to apologise or admit blame for fear of being sued for compensation

Depressingly true Doug. Maybe we should round up all the compensation claim lawyers, put them in a field and bomb them
That should solve a lot of problems And cut down on the numbers of people chasing ambulances

[Craig.]

how can you say this is the fault of swiss ATC, i am sorry but this is definatly one time i cant agree with you. Even the report states that no one person was to blame but a series of faults

"This accident happened because many actions and failures to act came together that, viewed on their own, might only have a small significance for air safety," the German investigators said.

The swiss ATC takes the blame for only having one controller on duty, the russian pilots take the blame for going against the TCAS orders to gain height, despite knowing the other planes would be telling them to go down(i had read the russian plane didnt have one in the original reports) The swiss maintenance takes blame for not giving full information that an important system wasnt fully operational. And the controller takes the blame for not paying closer attention and failing to act till the last minute.

[Hagar]

Maybe I should have said the majority of the blame. The Russian crew made the mistake of following the controller's instructions rather than trust the onboard warning equipment. I wonder what any one of us would have done in the same situation.

I don't know the full story but I can picture the scene in Swiss ATC. This took place in the early hours when there was not much traffic. One aircraft had just entered Swiss airspace & been handed over by German ATC. I believe it's compulsory for at least 2 controllers to be on duty at all times. It says in the report that the other controller was taking a break. It's possible that he was outside on an unofficial coffee break or smoko for all we know. The controller still on duty could have been half asleep or not concentrating when he spotted the 2 aircraft on a collision course. He made a quick decision which turned out to be wrong. We all make mistakes, most of them fortunately without these consequences. This might have been the first one he made in his career. No apologies or punishment can possibly make up for that one mistake or how he must have felt when realisation dawned.

I mean no disrespect to ATC in general. They do a grand job. These guys have a huge responsibility & I can't imagine the stress they work under all the time they're on duty. I thought my job was stressful enough. It often was but I couldn't handle theirs.

[Polynomial]

fallen world = stuffed up society