It might be time to "Weigh In"

[Fly2e]

Agency Tells Airlines to Weigh Passengers

Air travel would be safer if airlines weighed their passengers from time to time to make sure they know how much weight their planes are carrying, the National Transportation Safety Board says.
Following its investigation into a commuter plane crash last year in North Carolina, the NTSB said on Thursday that airlines should at least periodically make passengers step on a scale.
The safety board also recommended the Federal Aviation Administration require improvements to training, oversight and procedures for maintenance personnel.

The crash of US Airways Express Flight 5481 at Charlotte-Douglas Airport killed 21 people, the deadliest U.S. aviation accident in nearly 2 1/2 years.
The Beech 1900, operated by Air Midwest, was virtually uncontrollable because of two fatal mistakes, the safety board concluded.
First, the airline's guidelines for estimating the weight of passengers and baggage were inaccurate. The pilots, therefore, didn't realize the plane's rear section was too heavy.
Second, mechanics had improperly rigged cables connected to the elevator, the tail flap that controls the up-and-down direction of the aircraft's nose. The errors meant the elevator's downward motion was restricted to half its normal range, according to the NTSB.
Without a fully maneuverable elevator, the pilots couldn't force the nose of the plane down to compensate for its heavy tail, investigators said.
As a result, the plane pitched sharply upward just seconds after takeoff for Greer, S.C., then fell from the sky. Soon afterward, the FAA ordered airlines to weigh some of their passengers to determine the accuracy of current guidelines - for example, adults in winter were calculated to weigh 185 pounds on average.

The survey showed what many suspected: Passengers and their bags had gotten heavier. The FAA issued temporary guidelines adding up to 10 pounds to its estimate for passengers and 5 pounds to checked luggage.
The NTSB said those guidelines don't go far enough. The board recommended the FAA require airlines operating planes with 10 or more seats to weigh passengers periodically to determine when they might be heavier - for example, in December when they wear heavy coats and carry presents.
The FAA is working on that. Since June, a committee has been examining the average weights of passengers and baggage and how they vary according to season or geography.
Debby McElroy, Regional Airline Association president, said her group is working with the FAA on the weight and balance issues identified by the NTSB.
"We agree that further study is necessary, to ensure that air carrier weight and balance programs provide the highest level of safety," McElroy said.
The committee is expected to make recommendations next month.

NTSB investigators also found flaws in the way mechanics were trained and supervised, how their work was checked and how Air Midwest controlled the quality of its maintenance. Those problems led to the improperly rigged elevator cables on the Charlotte flight.
As part of a series of recommendations on maintenance, the NTSB said the FAA should require that work on key flight control systems, including elevator cables, be checked upon completion.
FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said the agency already is working on the issues raised by the investigation.

[Cvrt7.62Ghst]

<emphatic euphemism>!!!  This is going to be one more page in my FAR/AIM to remember and one more law to have to conform to when I get to the airlines.




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[size=0]Helpful editing by Felix/FFDS[/size]

[Felix/FFDS]

Interesting - and to be honest, I thought that airlines using the smaller equipment were doing that.

I remember that on PRINAIR, using DH Herons (early/mid- '80s) passengers would regularly be weighed - and I got the seat right where the wing spar crossed the fuselage all the time.

[Craig.]

this is one introduction i am happy to say, makes sense. It'll make things safer, and it will make pilots jobs easier with weight calculations, and could save companies alot of money in fuel. Instead of having to go with a guesstimate of fuel needed on an average weight chart, they can put in exactly the right amount of fuel safely needed for that weight with the usual safety requirements for alternate airport and holding pattern fuel. obviously, your gonna need less fuel with a flight full of passengers weighing 140lbs, than a flight full of 300lb'ers, of course its unlikely to be that way and thats the reason they have the average weight number(170lbs i believe)  but if you did have a flight full of skinney people like myself thats the equivalent of 30lbs per passenger.

[BFMF]

I'm surprised that passengers havn't been required to be weighed all along. Making sure the weight is properly balanced in smaller GA aircraft is essential, why should it be different with larger airlines?

[Craig.]

The American society these days seems to be built around lawsuits for everything from loosing a limb to sneezing, that also seems to be catching on well here. You start asking passengers for their weights they are gonna start complaining about it, and fat people are gonna try suing them because they are being discriminated against because they are fat, even though it would be everyone required to do the same thing.  At least if its brought in as a manditory requirement by the NTSB, very few people would have a legal case.

[Cvrt7.62Ghst]

You start asking passengers for their weights they are gonna start complaining about it, and fat people are gonna try suing them because they are being discriminated against because they are fat, even though it would be everyone required to do the same thing.

That was my other thought as well but didn't bother to say so.

[BFMF]

So what, these people need to realize that it can be a life or death matter. There was an incident here a few years ago where a couple men were flying as passengers in a small GA aircraft, but they lied about their weight. Consequently, the aircraft wasn't balanced properly and crashed. I don't think anyone was killed, but i'm sure they learned their lesson

[Hagar]

There was an incident here a few years ago where a couple men were flying as passengers in a small GA aircraft, but they lied about their age. Consequently, the aircraft wasn't balanced properly and crashed

I must remember not to lie about my age in future. I don't want to risk unbalancing the aircraft. LOL

[Craig.]

sadly the general public doesnt understand the workings of aircraft. They see some huge engines strapped to the wings(and tail in some cases) and think it'll have no problem taking off, no matter what it weighs. Personally i think they should go with an idea i saw a while back. Instead of asking for a passengers weight, they have underfloor scales, with a mat or something over it, the passenger would be warned ahead of time of its presence and that only one person should be stood on it at a time, then a computer would log the weight without a word ever having been said by anyone. It may cost alot to start with, but like i said, accurate weights will mean long term savings(something a few airlines need badly) that way, people cant lie about their weight either.

[BFMF]

My apoligies. Time for my meds

It's fixed

[Hagar]

My apoligies. Time for my meds

It's fixed

Shame you fixed it. Spoils the joke. Maybe I should remove my comment.

[BFMF]

Exellent idea Craig. It would definently save time over someone manually recording all the weights (ages )

[Hagar]

The public shouldn't have to worry about the workings of the aircraft. There's quite enough people terrified of flying as it is. Surely it's not beyond some bright spark's imagination to use the underfloor scales idea to compute the total weight of passengers + hand baggage allowed on board. This could be set up at the entry point to the departure lounge. The weight could be set for different types of aircraft before boarding. Once the limit is reached that's it. No need to display anyone's weight at all.

PS. You can bet your boots that Muggins here (that's me) would be next in line behind some overweight person & be turned away.

[Craig.]

I might be wrong, i usually am:) but isnt it the publics lack of knowledge, of aircraft that is causing problems. I know i feel safer knowing even the basics of how planes work let alone more advanced things.