deHavilland or DeHavilland???

[FLYING_TRUCKER]

Hope I am in the correct forum and will leave that to our moderators

I am just a tad confused...now stop smiling you guys .

We have a new book to sell at our gift shop at the RCAF Museum.

[Felix/FFDS]

[quote]We have a new book to sell at our gift shop at the RCAF Museum.

[Rifleman]

I would think one of these places might just have an inside track on the spelling of the name........

http://www.dehavillandmuseum.co.uk/

http://www.dehavilland.net/home.html

[Hagar]

How strange. Even the official museum site can't make up its mind on the correct spelling. The family name appears to be de Havilland which would be French or more likely Norman in origin. It's definitely 2 separate words & I've always used an upper case letter "D" for the company name - De Havilland. The famous company logo would seem to bear this out. This was also used as a trademark.



Rifleman's other link is to the present De Havilland Aviation Ltd. All rights to the company name were purchased by aircraft restorer Gwyn Jones in 1995. Apart from this it has no connection with the original company. By no means all the aircraft it operates or maintains are De Havilland types.

I found this site which claims to list all British aircraft types ever built.
http://www.britishaircraft.co.uk/

PS. The above claim is a tad ambitious. Many lesser-known companies are not mentioned. One example being General Aviation Ltd (GAL) that built (among others) the unsuccessful Owlet & Cygnet light aircraft plus the Hamilcar - the largest glider operated by the Allies in WWII. This company was later merged with Blackburn Aircraft Ltd. The Blackburn Beverley transport was a direct descendant of the Hamilcar.
http://www.beverley-association.org.uk/history/history.htm

[ozzy72]

Based on the original French it would have been written Geoffery de Havilland meaning Geoffery of Havilland.
I think it probably got bastardised at some point by someone who didn't learn French at school.
You see the same thing with people of Dutch origin in America, Dutch people write their names like Michelle van Dillen, but a Dutch/American would write it Van Dillen. Its anglicised methinks....
Hagar any comments/observations?

Mark

[Hagar]

Hagar any comments/observations?

Mark

Mark. As I mentioned earlier I think the family name is de Havilland. It's true that this is sometimes anglicised to De but this is not that common. The company name is a different issue. I dealt with the aircraft company for many years & as I recall the company name was always spelled De Havilland on all their correspondence, documentation & aircraft manuals.

[ozzy72]

In my aviation books here the company is always listed as de Havilland though, whether talking about the Chippie or the Moth...
Could the change have occured after purchase by Mr. Jones?

[Hagar]

In my aviation books here the company is always listed as de Havilland though, whether talking about the Chippie or the Moth...
Could the change have occured after purchase by Mr. Jones?

No definitely not. I've never met Mr Jones or dealt with him to my knowledge. I was involved on an almost daily basis with the original company. From 1959 this was part of the Hawker-Siddeley Group although the companies in the group retained their individual names at first. Some years later it was changed to Hawker Siddeley Aviation* which finally became BAe in 1977.

It's possible that it was The de Havilland Aircraft Co Ltd when it was originally formed in 1920 & changed to De Havilland some time later. Whatever - if the official museum can't make up its mind who am I to argue. LOL

*PS. I can remember all the aircraft designations being changed (DH 125 to HS 125 etc.) & the amount of paperwork involved. I always thought this was the beginning of the end for the British aircraft industry.

[FLYING_TRUCKER]

Goodmorning All:

Thanks for the sites and feedback.

What I have found here is "deHavilland" is all one word.
Now I have just taken that from several novels and front cover of one book.

I am lost a little bit. if he did not name the company after himself until 1920 then how did we get deHavilland aircraft during the First World War?

Is there a town, city or county called Havilland and is it near Surrey in England?

I would also take it that the Royal Aircraft Factory and Airco would be two of the oldest aeroplane manufacturers in the world then?

Thanks....Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

[Hagar]

I am lost a little bit. if he did not name the company after himself until 1920 then how did we get deHavilland aircraft during the First World War?

Is there a town, city or county called Havilland and is it near Surrey in England?

I would also take it that the Royal Aircraft Factory and Airco would be two of the oldest aeroplane manufacturers in the world then?

I think you're a tad confused Doug. The only British aircraft company I can think of named after the place it was based in was Gloster Aircraft Co, formerly the Gloucestershire Aircraft Co. (This also had its origins in Airco.) http://www.shanaberger.com/gloster.htm

Geoffrey de Havilland senior joined His Majesty's Balloon Factory at Farnborough in 1910. This later became the Royal Aircraft Factory. He became chief designer at the Aircraft Manufacturing Company (Airco) a month before WWI started. He stayed at Airco through the war & his designs were designated with the DH prefix. He bought the Airco company after sales dropped off at the end of WWI & renamed it the de Havilland (or De Havilland) Aircraft Co Ltd in 1920.
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Aerospace/DeHavilland/Aero49.htm

PS. I've never seen the name De Havilland written as one word.

[Felix/FFDS]

Actually, I'm very tempted to move this thread to the "History" Forum ..

There are two topics here - De/de Havilland (and variations), and early aircraft manufacturers, both of which are interesting topics.

The "consolidation" of the British aircraft industry is in itself an interesting topic....

Airco
 de Havilland
      Hawker Siddley
          BAe.

Sopwith
  Hawker
      Hawker Siddley
          BAe

Gloster
   Hawker
      Hawker Siddley
          BAe
       
Short/Short Bros...
   <-- variation -->
         Bombardier

Handley Page
         Hawker-Siddley
             BAe

Miles
   Handley Page
         Hawker-Siddley
             BAe

etc.....

(at least, that's from memory)

[FLYING_TRUCKER]

Thanks Doug

That sheds a lot of light on the subject.

Chief of Defence Staff, NAV CANADA and the Department of Natural Resources Canada all show the name as "DeHavilland" one word and this is how the new book shows it "deHavilland" in Canada.

That is what brought forth my Question or Post.

Also I have an old old tie which was left to me.  It is manufactured by PEGASUS CANADA and is the same width as a Military tie.  It is brown in color and has pictures of one aircraft on both sides with a capital D on the port wing and a capital H on the starboard wing.
I believe the aeroplane represents the Comet but not sure.  Across the rear fuselage between the wing and the rear stabilizer is the name CANADA.  The "D", "H" and "CANADA" are done in gold. The Aeroplanes are flying up the tie front and back.
It looks very well made.

I will probably donate it to the museum but will keep it for a while yet.

Thanks for all your help

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

[FLYING_TRUCKER]

Thanks Felix

That is wonderful the way you posted that AND very helpful.

Hope I can get back to you later on it.

Cheers....Happy Landings...Doug

[Hagar]

Thanks Doug

That sheds a lot of light on the subject.

Chief of Defence Staff, NAV CANADA and the Department of Natural Resources Canada all show the name as "DeHavilland" one word and this is how the new book shows it "deHavilland" in Canada.

I suspect this a Canadian thing. DH (Canada) was a separate offshoot of the parent company as you will be aware of. They might have their own way of spelling the name. If in doubt you could always use DH or DHC.

I have a theory as to why the name varies in those articles. I noticed the upper case "D" is used at the start of a sentence, otherwise it's a lower case "d". This is a common problem with modern word processors that try to think for you.

Another thought occurred. How do you pronounce the De in De Havilland? I always used the anglicised "Dee" Havilland rather than the French "Der".

[Hagar]

Actually, I'm very tempted to move this thread to the "History" Forum ..

I was trying to think of the best place for it myself. This goes back to what we've been discussing recently. Maybe the History forum is a good idea, but then again maybe not.

The "consolidation" of the British aircraft industry is in itself an interesting topic....

It certainly is. The family tree of most companies is more complex than in your example. Both De Havilland & Gloster originated with Airco. Folland later split from Gloster to form his own company.

Miles Aircraft traded under various names including Philips & Powis. It was also based at different locations throughout its history. The F.G. Miles electronics division (Miles Hivolt) at Lancing, Sussex, amalgamated with Singer-Link to become Link Miles, one of the pioneers of flight simulation. This company was later taken over by Thompson & the workforce moved to the old Rediffusion/Hughes Flight Simulation works at Crawley. I have no idea who owns it now.