Americans in the Battle of Britain...

[Jaffa]

Didn't one of the pilots in "Pearl Harbo(u)r" fight in the BoB?

As I recall he used a Spitfire that had been brought back by a wounded pilot who later died.

[Hagar]

I liked "Tora! Tora! Tora!" & thought it particularly well done. I never saw the point of making a new film of the same basic story just for the sake of it, unless the result is an improvement. I haven't seen "Pearl Harbor" myself but it was not well-received by the critics or the general public. I think this was a shame after all the time & effort that went into it. From the reviews I've read I'm not sure it was historically accurate either. It's quite possible that some of the American pilots serving with the RAF went back home after the attack on their own country. I believe that at least most of them actually remained in Britain & later became the basis of the Eagle squadrons.

One problem with Hollywood's liking for rewriting history to suit its major audience is that the facts become hazy & people who never heard the story before tend to believe the fiction rather than the truth. I get confused sometimes myself. A story like the one we're discussing is fascinating enough without straying from the truth at all. It has everything - glamour, excitement, drama & tragedy. I hope they realise this & do it the justice it deserves.

[Politically Incorrect]

Tora,Tora,Tora is one of my favorites!!!!!
As far as Pearl Harbor, they did what Hollywood does, made a movie with all the special effects which were pretty good and added the "love story" factor.
It would have been a really awesome movie based on the actual events of that day but it focuses more on the love triangle of two childhood friends and a woman.
The same held true with Titanic, you go expecting to see a movie based on history but you end up with more "love story" than anything else!

[C]

.. it's a movie about an American who paid his own way to go fight in the Battle of Britain and died doing it...

Sort of. Billy Fiske hailed from Chicago, but his family moved to Paris in 1922, when he would've been 11. He went to Trinity College, Cambridge and married an English woman, Rose Bingham (fromer Countess of Warwick). Although in the US at the outbreak of war, many friends he had made in the 30's wee with 601Sqn RAuxAF, and had my close business and family ties in the UK.

[C]

From the reviews I've read I'm not sure it was historically accurate either...

No, reading the book "Pearl Harbo(u)r" from which the film was adapted (or was the book adapted from the film?), it seemed the whole point of the BoB section was to show brave Ben "Hollywood Hearthrob" Affleck beating the Luftwaffe single handed having taken off from an RAF airfield fully equipped with country house, handlebar moustaches, stiff upper lips and cups of tea (bone china of course). And then he survived a crash in which most human bodies would have disintegrated...
To make matters worse, the author didn't bother to find out about RAF ranks, and we suddenly had RAF Air Commanders, and I think the book mentions Wing Captains. They got Squadron Leader right anyway, and it was somewhat apt the Spitfires used were painted in Polish sqn markings...

Unfortunately, I read the book before the film, and thought it was terrible, so wasn't really expecting to enjoy it

I didn't think much of the film, considering the money they spent...

Charlie

[Delta_]

Americans did fly in BoB but as RAF pilots.  They were transferred here so that it may build our alliance with America.  They fought in spitfires etc.

[Felix/FFDS]

[quote]Americans did fly in BoB but as RAF pilots.

[C]

This mostly deals with the period at the end of and after the BoB, but is interesting none the less...

The Americans

[Wing Nut]

So when these Americans were re-absorbed, did they keep the British planes or were they re-assigned to American planes?

[Hagar]

Pip. Charlie seems to know much more on this subject than me. I did a quick search on the Eagle Squadrons. This will give you a start. http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/prewwii/es.htm

the famed Eagle Squadrons which, contrary to popular belief, consisted of three individual squadrons, not one. Manned entirely by American pilots, these three RAF units, Nos.71, 121 and 133 Squadrons, flew Hawker "Hurricanes" and Supermarine "Spitfires" in combat over Europe from February 5, 1941 to September 29, 1942 when they were transferred to the AAF. Formed into the 4th Fighter Group, they provided numerous experienced combat veterans who were to prove so valuable to the inexperienced AAF fighter pilots who began to arrive in England in large numbers in 1943.

I've seen plenty of photos of Spitfires in AAF markings & some of Paul Rebuffat's CFS2 models. Without checking I don't know the Mark.

[Felix/FFDS]

I've seen plenty of photos of Spitfires in AAF markings & some of Paul Rebuffat's CFS2 models. Without checking I don't know the Mark.

As Charlie points out, most of the Spits in AAF markings were Mark Vs.  

During the Operation Torch landings in North Africa,  many of the "Spits" in AAF markings were actually FAA Seafires, for which US markings were applied to make the US involvement appear larger than it was (Note to Hagar: That's how you got Stringbags in US markings.)

Mustangs and Thunderbolts replaced Spifires (One squadron converting to Jugs from Spits was understandably displeased at first)

[Scorpiоn]

Pearl Harbor was a terrible movie, the only reason I got it was the air sequences were some of the best available.  I, for one, believe the CG is some of the best, save for The Lord of the Rings or a few others.  But the movie is overdramatized and full of inaccuracies.

[C]

So when these Americans were re-absorbed, did they keep the British planes or were they re-assigned to American planes?

I believe to start with they either kept their existing Mk V's or received brand new ones. Whichever, they initially seemed to be equipped with Spitfires on transfer to the USAAF...
133 certainly had new aeroplanes as they lost 12 Spitfires due to fuel starvation on a mission 3 days before the transfer to the USAAF 4th Fighter Group.
71 Sqn RAF bacame 334th(71), 121sqn the 335th(121) and 133 the 336th(133) Fighter Sqns.

Charlie

[Delta_]

Many Americans did join the UK in adeventure because the US was neautral at that time.

The Eagle squadron was set up so that Americans could join the war and fight with the British.  They were seperate from the RAF, unless they were Americans that joined the RAF, they did not see as much action as the RAF.

The USAF was negotiating with the RAF because they had lost squadrons that they had heavily invested in, so when the Eagle squadrons returned they were all equipt with Spitfire VBs.  

[Hagar]

You might find this interesting. http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/es.html

Prior to the United States' entry into WWII many Americans volunteered for service in the RAF and RCAF. The Battle of Britain raged from May though October 1940. Most Americans followed the battle in the news and knew that in time the US would become involved in the war. The stories of the RAF pilots flying their Hurricanes and Spitfires inspired many to look into joining the RAF. As a result of the Battle of Britain the RAF was short on pilots so a call went out for pilots to replace the RAF's depleted ranks. Of the thousands that volunteered, 244 American pilots were to fly for the Eagle Squadrons; Number 71, 121, and 133 Squadrons of the Royal Air Force Fighter Command. It was the RAF's policy to pick Englishmen as squadron and flight commanders and 16 of these British pilots served with the Eagle Squadrons. From the time the first Eagle Squadron was formed in September 1940 until all three squadrons were disbanded and incorporated into the USAAF in September 1942, they destroyed 73 1/2 German planes while 77 American and 5 British members were killed.

The reason most of the pilots volunteered was quite simply for adventure. Leo Nomis wrote "I think that all of us, with very few exceptions were simply adventurers and romanticists, and perhaps idealists." Robert Patterson noted "I joined the RAF not primarily for patriotic reasons. We all knew a war was coming. I used this as a quick way for some flying excitement." Howard Stickland observed "We were all motivated by the thought of high adventure, the excitment of combat flying, and a desire to help the British." Red McColpin wrote that some "could not take the long routine in the U.S. services to become military pilots, when they were already experienced aviators." Once in England the new recruits were sent to an operational training unit (OTU) for two to four weeks, where they learned to fly Miles Master trainers, Hurricanes, and Spitfires before being posted to a squadron. After OTU some of the men went straight to one of the Eagle Squadrons while others first served with other RAF squadrons before being transferred to an Eagle squadron.

When informed of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor most of the Eagle Squadron pilots wanted to immediately join the Air Corps. 71 and 121 Squadrons sent representatives to the American Embassy in London and offered their services to the US the following day. 71 squadron then decided they wanted to go to Singapore to fight the Japanese and a proposal was put to Fighter Command but turned down. It would take some time however for the USAAF to organize and ship to England the elements necessary to support air operations. HQ 8th Air Force opened on 18 June 1942 in London with Major General Carl Spaatz commanding. On 26 June 1942 air echelons of the 31st Fighter Group (307th, 308th, 309th FS) were established at Atcham and High Ercall, England. These were the first combat personnel of the VIII Fighter Command to reach the UK. These squadrons were equipped with Spit Vs and flew thier first mission on 17 August 1942. The first USAAF air operation over W Europe took place on 4 July 1942 with the 15th Bombardment Squadron (Light) flying 6 Bostons belonging to No. 226 Squadron RAF.