Is Mars Ours?

[Katahu]

Try a few billion.

Thanks for correcting me.

[Smoke2much]

Interesting debate so far...

I think that should life continue as is, with population expanding then the colonisation of the solar system is inevitable.  Technology is advancing steadily to the point where manned exploration of the planet (Mars) will be safe within my lifetime (currently 30).

If however some disaster, whether natural or man made, occurs and the population declines as a result a project like this would be relegated as the need would disappear.

Remember that in 1350(ish) the population of Britain was higher than it's 1750 level.  The whole of the western world was hammered by the plague and it took centuries to recover.  Nature seems resiliant to change and the advances in medical scienc seem to do little more than spawn new diseases and bugs to catch.

Will

[SilverFox441]

The Earth can't support 12 billion people.

Not because it lacks the capacity, but because of people. People want things, they want comforts, they want cars, they want TV's, they want computers...

The way to save Earth isn't to turn our back on space, but to embrace it. We've all heard the old saw: You don't defecate where you eat. The choice is quickly becoming don't eat or don't defecate.

Space offers us a third option.

With space there is an almost inexhaustable supply of cheap energy. An almost inexhaustable supply of cheap raw materials. An almost inexhaustable supply of room.

All we have to do is be brave enough to take it.

Kyoto would become meaningless if space industry became the norm. Why would anyone even bother to build or operate a factory on Earth when it would have to compete against cheaper space based factories?

We also have to remember that it is well established that for every dollar spent on space research, $10 is returned to the economy. There are also the technologies that are created.

Want a fuel cell car?

It's space tech that leads us there.

The first space race gave us a technology that could easily replace the internal combustion engine. Just think of the benefit to all mankind that would be. Look at the car/truck formed smog in LA or Mexico. How about a fuel cell to heat and light your house?

We could always decide to stay here and "Take care of Earth first."

I expect the last survivor of the last war will damn us all for not taking the better option and really taking an course that could have accomplished the goal.

[Bubblehead]

>:( >:( >:( >:(

Forget about Mars. The picture from the Rover showed nothing but dirt and stones. How long will it take for an earth spaceship to rich Mars? If we can hardly survive the earths desserts and the artic, what are the chances of surviving in Mars? And what kind of benefits can we expect for the billions of dollars it will cost to go to Mars. So who owns Mars? You guys can have it.

Don

[Travis]

How long will it take for an earth spaceship to rich Mars?

With our current technology: about three to six months, depending on where Earth and Mars are in relation to each other.  Maybe as long as nine, but that only be when they are at opposite ends of their orbits.

Not to long when you think about it . . .

[SilverFox441]

There are low-tech human societies living in both the Arctic and in major deserts.

As for benefits...who can tell?

When the US space program was in it's last big phase who would have guessed that Teflon would have been a big benefit? What about ceramics? There have been a huge number of products or product improvements that have come about because of space research, some are so ubiquitous that we no longer even think about them as recent discoveries. Then there are others that have made such an impact that they are hard to ignore.

A short list:

• drinking water filters
• CAT scans
• cellular phones
• imaging systems used in laser surgery
• a better form of insulin
• osteoporosis research
• scratch resistant lenses
• portable coolers/warmers
• Dustbuster
• smoke detectors
• high-density batteries
• art preservation
• pollution control devices
• earthquake prediction system
• sewage treatment
• ultrasound scanners
• MRI
• implantable heart aid
• firefighters' radios
• studless winter tires
• electric car (made practical)
• emission testing
• portable x-ray device
• Microcomputers

I guess it's pretty obvious that we shouldn't "waste" time, effort, or money on space...after all what has it done for us?

Just try living without the advances of space science.

[Smoke2much]

There's also the slight matter that you guys put a man on the damned moon!!!  For national acheivements that's up there if you get my drift...

Will

[Paz]

 I think space exploration is great, but I have a deep sense of adventure, I'm always interested in whats around the next corner or over the next hill, so ever since I was a kid outer space has been very interesting to me.
 Personally I would like to see a manned mission to mars in my lifetime.

 As for anyone who is against exploring our solar system, what if that was the attitude in the early days of civilization and no one thought it was neccessary to explore beyond their own continent? Can you imagine how primitive we would still be, and all living on one continent because no one took the initiative to explore beyond the shores of their home land.
 We must keep moving into the future or our race would stagnate and no further advances in technology would take place.

 Who knows what the future holds regarding the moon and Mars, but I'll bet that in a couple of centuries these places will be vacation spots for those who can afford to go there.

[Hagar]

This is all very well but I come back to my original point. Logistics. How would it be possible to transport that many people & supplies to Mars? It would obviously be confined to a select few. Just how those few would be chosen is what concerns me. Or more to the point - who gets left behind? Now we seem to be on the subject of putting factories on there as well. Forgetting the logistics of this aspect for now - the complete cycle starts all over again. The whole idea is a nonsense.

The first space race gave us a technology that could easily replace the internal combustion engine. Just think of the benefit to all mankind that would be. Look at the car/truck formed smog in LA or Mexico. How about a fuel cell to heat and light your house?

Ask yourself why this & other technology wasn't embraced with open arms & not already in use. With a tiny percentage of the effort expended on space exploration this could have been a reality long before now.

We could always decide to stay here and "Take care of Earth first."

This is the obvious answer. Unfortunately it will never happen. We will just go on dreaming about the Utopia we can create on another planet & continue "defecating in our own back yard" in order to achieve it.

[Katahu]

A very interesting debate this has gotten.

We have a small company [or at least I think it's a company] called X-Plane. No...I'm not talking about the simulator.

X-Plane is about having average, every-day people creating ever-cheaper ships in their garages that [for now] can only achieve extreme tourism at low earth-orbit.

But imagine over time. Soon, we'll have plenty of private comanies that will compete against each other by trying to lower their prices for average people. It's like Verizon Wireless competing against Motorola by selling cheaper cell phones.

This way, we'll have private companies selling cheaper and cheaper rides instead of having to rely on the government's expensive programs.

This will make it easier for us not-so-rich people to travel in space.

However, all this takes time. But, eventually, it will happen.

Who says the government will still be the only one to provide the rides in the future? Remember, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Now, for those who don't like to move to another planet, fine. Stay here. But remember, people have the right to choose to go, ya know. [no offense intended]

Besides, we are living in a world that changes over time. Therefore, we have no other choice but to put up with it.

[Woodlouse2002]

The Earth can't support 12 billion people.

Not because it lacks the capacity, but because of people. People want things, they want comforts, they want cars, they want TV's, they want computers...

Earth can support 12 billion and more. I'm not talking about giving people cars, computers and TV's. I'm talking about feeding them.

Also its the fact of whether we get that many people on earth. AIDS is set to take a huge toll on the worlds population. There is not only the problem in Africa but I believe its spreading in Asia too.

See, nature has ways of controling population growth. If there are too many of a certain speices then they starve intill they have a supportable level again.

This means there is no reason to go to mars because we run out of space on earth.

Also, our sun is aging and slowly expanding. Thus, the COMFORT-ZONE [distance from the sun in which the temperature is perfect for supporting life] is moving away and will be located at Mars while Earth is devoured.

When the sun dies, in an estimated four billion years time, it will expand and take half the solar system with it. There is no escaping this. Be you on Earth, Mars or pluto. The death of the sun shall be the end of this solar system and there is nothing anyone can do about it. The good news is that in four billion years time, we'll all be beyond caring.

With our current technology: about three to six months, depending on where Earth and Mars are in relation to each other.  Maybe as long as nine, but that only be when they are at opposite ends of their orbits.

Remember, this year was the closest to Earth than it has been for many thousands of years. Hence the four attempts to get probes there. And as Mars is now getting futher away from earth, traveling there will always take longer than the previous journey.

earthquake prediction system

There is no such thing. There is no way, as yet to predict when an earth quake is going to happen. You can predict where its going to happen (on a fault line) but you cannot predict when. In california all they have is an early warning system. So when there is an earth quake on the San Andreas fault, a signal is sent to San Francisco and other places. This gives about a 2 second warning for those 50 miles away and a 20 second warning to the major cities there.

As for anyone who is against exploring our solar system, what if that was the attitude in the early days of civilization and no one thought it was neccessary to explore beyond their own continent? Can you imagine how primitive we would still be, and all living on one continent because no one took the initiative to explore beyond the shores of their home land.
 We must keep moving into the future or our race would stagnate and no further advances in technology would take place.

The difference between exploring our own planet and space is huge. And if we didn't go exploring earth then well, all that would have remained undiscovered is antarctica and america. And as all you americans really came from europe then I do not see how we would be any more primitive than we are now. All it would mean is that the American Indians would still be living happily in their wigwams killing bison.

[Katahu]

When the sun dies, in an estimated four billion years time, it will expand and take half the solar system with it. There is no escaping this. Be you on Earth, Mars or pluto. The death of the sun shall be the end of this solar system and there is nothing anyone can do about it. The good news is that in four billion years time, we'll all be beyond caring.

True.

But consider this. In the process of its expansion [not the process of its death], the sun will only be able to swallow up one planet at a time.

One day, our decendents will live in Mars knowing that Earth has now become like Venus and Venus looking like Mercury and Mercury being nothing more than fuel for the sun.

But our decendents will know that soon Mars will look like Venus and so on as the sun continues to slowly expand while the decendents of OUR decendents move on to other planets or nearby stars as a colony. Thus, keeping the human race alive.

Since it will take a few billion years for the sun to die, imagine how long [as the sun only expands] it can just take for Mars to soon be in the COMFORT-ZONE that the Earth use to be in. It seems that there is not much time left in the distant future.

[Hagar]

But consider this. In the process of its expansion [not the process of its death], the sun will only be able to swallow up one planet at a time.

Personally, I doubt the Human race will survive that long. I know I'm not going to worry myself over it.

[Blade]

I think the best thing to do is cooperate together, so that all could enjoy it. One of the big things on my mind is to place stations on the moon that can take out any asteroids or comets that threaten it. Except this is prohibited by international treaty with having nuclear weapons/testing in space.

[Hagar]

I'm all for cooperation. The idea of nuclear weapons in space always bothered me for some reason. Not that I suppose they would be any worse than the ones we have here. I'm sure we already have quite enough to blow ourselves to oblivion if we wish.

It occurs to me that in order to protect us from asteroids these things would ideally be situated on the dark side of the moon. Not sure this would be practical. If they're facing this way they could be pointing at me. I wouldn't like to think about that when I go out to look at the moon.