Another Interesting Ponderance??

[ozzy72]

My mind just won't stop stumbling over these "thought worthy" snippets! (At least they're thought worthy to me.............lol).

Does anyone find it interesting that during the 2 world wars, the 'Nemeses" (if you like) of the Germans, in many occasions, seemed to have German Heritage (or at least, German sounding names).

Rickenbacher, Eisenhower, Roosevelt etc

[ozzy72]

Yes, umm well it is somewhat strange, but then a large number of what became Americans were of German origin, and it was only by a couple of votes the Americans chose English rather than German as their language.
The other funny thing is that the British Royal family were to change their name in the early part of the last century due to certain embarrassing relatives in a certain European country.......

[Smoke2much]

Blackadder Goes Forth.  Episode 3(I think)  

Interrorgation of Captain Darling.

Darling: I'm as English as Queen Victoria!

Blackadder: So your Father is German, you are half German and you married a German?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Royal name was Saxe Coburg until changed to Windsor.

What about Montgomery, Haig, Petain (WW1, not 2 LOL), Zhukov, Stalin etc.......

I will not pretend that both world wars were not made infinitley easier by the presence of the Americans, but they did not fight them alone, infact from a military stand point the major input in WW1 was to hold quiet sectors of the line so that the more experienced British and French troops could be released for a massive assault following the halted Kaiserschlact offensive.

In World War 2 the Americans were seen as equal partners to the British and Empire troops during all of the planning and much of the fighting.  Eisenhower was given command of the battle for the release (can't think of right word) of Europe at the suggestion of Churchill who recognised that after the initial assault on Normandy the force would be approximately 60-40 US to Br Commonwealth/empire.

I also think that the Nemesis of Germany was Smith.  That common name that exists throughout Britain, Canada, Australia, USA and New Zealand.  The name that represents the Millions that did the fighting and the dying.  And whilst we are on the Millions that did the fighting and dying let's not forget that had it not been for the Great Patriotic War in which 21 000 000 Russians died there would have been no chance for the Normandy invasion at all.

Will

[ozzy72]

Eisenhower was given command of the battle for the release (can't think of right word) of Europe

Liberation.....

Good points, and valid too.

I realise that the majority of those responsible for Hitlers defeat number in the millions, and the contribution of the Russians can't be underestimated.

Just that when I was thinking of the major names ie. Eisenhower (Supreme Com. Allied Forces in Europe) and Roosevelt (US President - until almost the very end). And as far as WWI is concerned, well..........there doesn't seem to be as much known about or as much historical mention of the leaders and commanders (at least not as much as about WWII), and I was reading about famous names relating to both wars and the second from the top of the list in WWI was Rickenbacher (obviously an American book..........lol).

No......there's no significance or real value to the thought. I just saw it as unusual, that's all.

What is this VOTE about the American national language, you speak of?  ;D

[Smoke2much]

Liberation.....

Nice one, that's the word.  It was on the tip of my brain so to speak!!!

Will

[ozzy72]

Steve as I recall from my history lessons (many many years ago, I'm sure my history teacher had personally fought against the Roman Empire in fact )
But when America first won its independence from the Imperial Red coloured bits of the atlas they founding fathers took a vote and by two votes they chose English as the language for their new land.

Mark

[Tequila Sunrise]

I've got another one:
Why did Gemran fighter pilots aquire scores of 100+ when alied pilots were exeptional if they got more than 20. I realise that many of the German kills were on the Eastern front against inferior aircraft and less experianced pilots but, even after the Germans were in full retreat the allies never aproached the 100 kill mark.

[Woodlouse2002]

I've got another one:
Why did Gemran fighter pilots aquire scores of 100+ when alied pilots were exeptional if they got more than 20. I realise that many of the German kills were on the Eastern front against inferior aircraft and less experianced pilots but, even after the Germans were in full retreat the allies never aproached the 100 kill mark.

Because british and american fighter pilots were removed from active duty after a couple of tours so that they could put there experiance into training the young guns. German pilots just kept on flying right through the war. Also the germans fought against the russians in 1941 when they were literally cannon fodder and in the spanish civil war. All this along with fighting the US 8th airforce (which to put nicely was a bit of a turkey shoot) led to some german pilots getting very high scores.

[Tequila Sunrise]

fair enough

[Iroquois]

Steve as I recall from my history lessons (many many years ago, I'm sure my history teacher had personally fought against the Roman Empire in fact )
But when America first won its independence from the Imperial Red coloured bits of the atlas they founding fathers took a vote and by two votes they chose English as the language for their new land.

Mark

I'm not sure on that Ozzy. English was just chosen for the US because everyone spoke it to begin with. This is why Quebec didn't join the American Revolution. They were asked to but they refused because they say the war as simply "English fighting English."
The truth in this is that all European races are related in some way or another through the migration of persecuted Jews and Christians and the expansion of the Roman Empire. Later Imperial expansion would mix the peoples together. My family's roots can be traced to England, Scotland, Wales, and France. The English language itself is an offshoot of Latin and German. It's all very complex and very facinating.

[Professor Brensec]

I've got another one:
Why did Gemran fighter pilots aquire scores of 100+ when alied pilots were exeptional if they got more than 20. I realise that many of the German kills were on the Eastern front against inferior aircraft and less experianced pilots but, even after the Germans were in full retreat the allies never aproached the 100 kill mark.

What Woody said. Also add to that the very many, but very inferior Polish bi-planes, plus the French planes, which weren't as plentiful as the Polish, but almost as inferior. Add the Csech planes, and that makes for alot of easy killing that the allies never got a go at.
The Allies were up against superior (in the very beginning) planes from the start, and the Germans were always able to 'field' at least something approaching the quality and performance of the Allied planes, all the way through. So there was never a time when the Allies enjoyed a 'Turkey shoot' situation, at least not until the P51-D. And, of course, by then the German planes were getting very thin.
In fact, (not sure if it's truth or legend!) I believe only 2 German fighters contested the Normandy landings on D-Day itself (their fighters were ridiculously thinly scattered, almost to the point where there were airfields with only one or two serviceable planes.

The same disproportionate kill rate (although to a lesser degree) existed in the Pacific also. However, many of the Japanese kills were 'racked up' in China and Manchuria (against mainly Polikapov I-15 & 16's), long before their fight against the Allies in the Pacific.
I'm sure that Saburo Sakai (the advisor to M$) got most of his sixty something prior to the US war.

I know, for Australians to get anything that approached the 'tallies' (hence the expression 'tally-ho' which tranlates to something like "There's 'tally' or scoring to be had over there") I digress. The Australians couldn't hope to come across the numbers of Japanese aircraft (even bombers) that would allow them to achieve scores in even the 20's, in New Guinea, Burma and such areas. Those Australians that did score high were involved in the BoB or the later European skies.  ;D

Thank You for reading The "Brensec Analysis"  ;D

[Smoke2much]

There could be another reason for it as well.  Maybe the Luftwaffe trained it's pilot's better than we did and maybe they were more dedicated and had that "edge" that our pilots didn't have.

Will

[Professor Brensec]

[quote]There could be another reason for it as well.

[Smoke2much]

I was trying to get a reaction, which you failed to give me.....  Oh well.  I thought that there would be a flurry of posts designed around the "how can there be anything good about the Nazi's" theme.  Once again I underestimated my SimV colleagues.

I think it was the old war of attrition concept and we just kept on producing pilots of a certain quality long after the Germans could keep up.

Germany was fighting desparately on the Russian Front and in Italy and from what I have read the Luftwaffe did not get priority for the best recruits, the SS did.  Young men who had all the qualities required to be excellent pilots were "thrown away" as infantry section commanders.  Those who did go to the Luftwaffe weren' given enough time to train, and had to go into battle with a bomb attached to an underfueled fighter.....

Will

[packercolinl]

A lot of very good people lost their lives on both sides and we should mourn them all.
I met a bloke who was a courier rider in the Wehrmacht on the Russian front and he said that while the job was dangerous he considered himself very fortunate. They rode BMW outfits with a machinegun mounted on the sidecar. When they rode into creeks the cylinders would shrink in the extreme cold and seize the engine. The gunner would have to get out and push the motorcycle out of the freezing water.
On a lighter note I'm part German(Prussian depending on who you talk to)did I win the war or lose it??