Traffic Patterns / Airspaces

[beefhole]

Not to mention some cantankerous, inflexible controllers (or do they only hate us little guys?).

You'd be a generally angry person to if your job involved moving blips around all day for little pay

Not to mention the worst part of it... constantly talking to people... it's terrible....

[JFG389]

May I ask a question?

How far from the runway is the traffic pattern, for the base leg and downd legs, for non ILS or vor approches? If I'm to close then I miss the final, if I'm to far I have to come back to center finals. I flown only sim for years. The only time I come in on centering final is on ILS or  when I use the standard turn rates off downwinds, of I think three minutes.
Any helps here also?

[Brett_Henderson]

For non-precision approaches, you can generally expect to fly straight in (circle-to-land and some approaches bring you in on other than runway heading). There is no standard downwind, base, etc..

If you have to go missed.. there will be a holding fix (nav-aid or intersection) that you'll climb and fly to.

I flew the VOR-A ( "A" meaning your inbound course is not runway heading (or close to it)) at Urbana, Ohio the other day. If it's flown perfectly, you reach the decision point pretty darn close to a 45-degree, downwind entry (assuming the wind favors that runway). These kind of approaches make me nervous. They assume enough visibility for you to negotiate some sort of pattern. Most approaches have you set up so when you "bust out" of the clouds.. there isn't much else left to do, except make an adjustment and land.

As a rule.. there is no standard pattern for instrument approaches.

[beaky]

May I ask a question?

How far from the runway is the traffic pattern, for the base leg and downd legs, for non ILS or vor approches? If I'm to close then I miss the final, if I'm to far I have to come back to center finals. I flown only sim for years. The only time I come in on centering final is on ILS or  when I use the standard turn rates off downwinds, of I think three minutes.
Any helps here also?

Not sure if this is the info you want, but for light aircraft flying VFR in the pattern at an uncontrolled field, the usual thing is about 1/2 mile from the centerline on downwind. Depending on obstructions , the turn to final usually starts anywhere from 1/2 mile to a mile from the threshold. In faster planes at the higher TPA, I guess it'd be a mile to two miles when parallel to the runway. The general idea is to be within gliding distance of the runway at that altitude... wouldn't be a pretty landing if you had to turn around midfield to try to dump it on the runway in an emergency, but it'd be better than not being close enough to at least get onto the airport property.

[beaky]

You'd be a generally angry person to if your job involved moving blips around all day for little pay

Not to mention the worst part of it... constantly talking to people... it's terrible....

Oh, I know it's stressful... and believe me, I've dealt with some controllers who were also very calm, patient, and just plain friendly. One early Sunday morning at KTEB, I was greeted with "Nice day to go flying!", etc. by a very nice controller... he actually sounded like he was enjoying himself.
On a related note: Sunday before my flight, I turned on my old scanner to check the KEWR ATIS, and decided to listen to the tower freq. for a bit. Just as I tuned to the tower freq, I heard the controller testily repeating a ground instruction (to an airliner pilot), with an added reminder: "and don't use that word on the radio!". He sounded angry... I wish I'd heard what the pilot had said!!

[JFG389]

Thanks Rottydady and other pilots,

You information was very helpful!!!

But do you find that formilarity with Your airports and its surronding things, like tree, buildings and markers helps line things up on the pattern legs in VFR?

[Brett_Henderson]

To a point, yes. But especially in light planes, and especially turning base.. the wind has more to say about it all than nearby landmarks. You've always got that big stretch of pavement in sight.. even well before you enter a pattern. If you use something like a building or road as your primary mark for transition from downwind to final.. you'll find yourself back on the throttle.. or worse.. dumping the flaps, slipping (sometimes not a good combo).. even S-turning to get down to the runway.

Taking off is another story. I fly out of a pretty busy, class D airspace airport (KOSU). More times than not.. you'll be given take-off clearance for runway heading, regardless of the direction you requested, just to get you off the ground. Some times you'll get,  "turn on course approved".. sometimes you won't and have to wait till you're clear of the airspace for a frequency change (or own navigation). With the two main runways (9/27 L/R) being parallel.. it's VERY important to stay ON runway heading.. not drift or P-factor your way into the other departure sector. As soon as I'm off the ground.. I pick a spot on the horizon and fly to it. That's easier than guessing at the wind or gauging the P-factor. It only takes a couple of minutes to clear the airspace.

[C]

But do you find that formilarity with Your airports and its surronding things, like tree, buildings and markers helps line things up on the pattern legs in VFR?

Yes. It helps an awful lot if you have features on the ground to aid you (to track towards on the downwind leg, or a feature used to turn onto the base leg and finals etc*) as it can free up spare capacity for you to think about other things (downwind checks, other aircraft in the circuit, wind effects etc)...

*trying to think civilian circuits! - the last on I did of those must have been 2002! Military circuits are oval/racetrack shapes, with a continuous finals turn from downwind to the final approach...