Traffic Patterns / Airspaces

[-sam-]

Hi there,

I have some questions regarding Traffic Patterns
and Airspaces.

1. If you want to enter a Traffic pattern, do you always have to enter at the middle of
of the downwind leg (think it

[Rocket_Bird]

In entering a traffic pattern, it depends on whether or not the airspace is controlled.  In uncontrolled airspace, you would typically fly over the field (to examin the wind direction) about 1500' above ground to the upwind side (the side opposite of the downwind side).  Then from the upwind side, you would descend to 1000' (circuit altitude) to join on the downwind.

Now its different in controlled airspace.  Sometimes they will tell you to come straight in (on final), or join like a base leg or something.  Normally instructions all the way through will be given by the controller.  In controlled airspace, typically you can maintain whatever altitude you are at, and the controller will tell you to change.  

As for question 3, im not too sure what your asking.  Im thinking it means different airspaces?  One for arrival, the other for terminal or tower.... got me on that

For question 4, i don't fly in eddm much (i think ive only gone there once on an atc session online  ;D).  From knowledge off hand though, you shouldn't be going into restricted airspace.  Any class C airspace should be good if your doing VFR.  If the whole area is restricted... then... thank god its FS9

[beefhole]

You always, ALWAYS want everybody that's in the pattern to be at the same altitude.  Always.

[-sam-]

Thank You very much !!

[Hester]

We have another additional way of entering the circuit at uncontrolled airports here in Canada: the mid-field crosswind.  Basically, from the upwind side you can fly midway over the field at circuit alt, turn onto downwind and finish the rest of the circuit  :).

[Boss_BlueAngels]

As for non-towered airports, it also depends upon what the other traffic is doing.

[-sam-]

Thank You people !! This is really helpfull information
for me.
You guys are real pro

[beefhole]

It would be a serious traffic hazard to have people at different altitudes in the same TP.  There's a reason there's a uniform TPA-it's so that everybody can see everybody else, and everybody knows what everybody's doing.

In RL, you will come across pilots who just don't talk, and man do they piss me the **** off.  You can call them again and again and again and they just won't answer.  It is because of people like this that there needs to be an extra layer of safety over the situational awareness of announcing your position.

[OTTOL]

[quote]It would be a serious traffic hazard to have people at different altitudes in the same TP.

[beefhole]

I know that you mean well but the BOSS_BA is correct. Read any AF/D, 1,500'agl is standard for turbine powered aircraft at most fields with a CTAF.

Oops, I forgot about jets... I thought he was just refering to props.  It's alright for jets because (in general) they're not following the same pattern as a prop, they take their downwind further from the field and extend it more than a prop would.  We have citations in and out of Wings constantly-they fly at 2,000' AGL in the pattern.

So, just to clarify, you don't want two 172s at different altitudes, right on top of eachother, with the same ground track landing at the same place in the same pattern.

[beaky]

Standard rule-of-thumb for nontowered airports:
Enter the downwind at a 45-degree angle to your downwind leg heading (not necessarily midfield but it's best to do that), at the TPA (very very important!!) when you enter. In RL, the TPAs vary, but the 1000AGL/1500AGL rules should do the trick in FS. You can find the airport elevation (above mean sea level) in the info box for the airport in the Map page; just add 1000 or 1500 to that number to determine your TPA for that field.
Most uncontrolled fields use a left-hand pattern; there are some that don't in RL, but no way to tell in FS, except for the obvious stuff like mountains close to the runway on one side, etc.
And yeah, like Boss said, if you're going to come straight-in or some other nonstandard entry or approach, you need to announce it (and keep your eyes peeled!)... but of course this won't work in FS9. It's always safest to fly a standard pattern, and it's good practice for making precise heading changes, etc.
If the tower is conrolling you, all bets are off, except for the TPA (unless they say otherwise). They'll usually tell you to make left turns or right turns, unless they clear you for a straight-in
approach.
As far as the boundary thing goes: I had a different answer, then I looked at the map of that airport. Looks like a bug, or perhaps a small portion of that box goes up to 10,000 but they forgot to add the line. Only way to know for sure is to look at a RL chart of that area.
"Prohibited" airspace means: "Stay the hell out!"Examples: the airspace around Camp David, the White House, etc.
"Restricted" means: "You'd better have a good reason!" Example: the helicopter training area near West Point, south of SWF.
  I think in RL there are ways to get permission to enter restricted areas, but I avoid them like the plague- same with Alert, Warning, and MOAs... not worth the risk even with clearance to enter, IMHO... accidents can and do happen in those areas, esp. when you have pilots training in high-speed low-level IFR operations in military aircraft!! Flying a small piston plane in  RL, by the time you see that kind of traffic, it'll probably be the very last thing you see...
In some areas this can mean a long detour, though. The Gulf Coast of the US, for example... it's like one enormous MOA. There are lots of small airports down there, though- the local pilots must have to make quite a few phone calls before going on a trip.
But  I think in FS9 you just request clearance from the controller as you would for any kind of controlled airspace.

[Sytse]

Or you could just call out a fuel emergency or sumtin and forget all the rules. If you like the guys from FFA that is...  :P

[beaky]

No, you wouldn't want that hassle, from what I hear. Besides, improper pattern procedure is a great way to meet people- by accident...
I was once landing at a small field in Pennsylvania; did everything by the numbers, listening and talking on the CTAF, and some dumbass who wasn't talking on the radio tried to land on the same runway, going the other way, at nearly the same moment. The wind was light and variable, so technically he wasn't landing downwind, but still...
 I didn't see him because he came straight in, and by the time he crossed the threshold, I was already below 100 feet and looking only at the far end of the runway. To make things worse, he didn't go around- he just zoomed over me as I was rolling out and landed just beyond...  quite long, too.  My impression was that he saw my plane the whole time... he was assuming a great deal... if I'd panicked and tried to go around from below him, things might've gotten very dicey.
It was a dual training flight, and we were just making the one landing there, so I didn't take the time to stop and go over to where this "Sky King" was parked to introduce myself (with my fist!). I really wanted to, though- and my CFI was even more angry!
My lesson: expect the unexpected, and be looking for it. Most midairs occur on perfect VFR days, near small airports.
His lesson: If you won't or can't use the radio, at least follow the standard procedures, or  be ready to yield to those who do.

[beefhole]

Rotty, that's why I want to spend as little time in GA as possible.  Because of idiots like that.  There's people who won't talk EVEN WHEN YOU ****ING ADDRESS THEM!  I can't stand it.

[beaky]

Rotty, that's why I want to spend as little time in GA as possible.  Because of idiots like that.  There's people who won't talk EVEN WHEN YOU ****ING ADDRESS THEM!  I can't stand it.

Ah, but that's one dingbat compared to dozens of pilots who were  courteous, conscientious,friendly,  and into flying for the sheer joy of it. And when you do start flying professionally, you will discover some reckless pilots with real attitude, I'll bet...
Not to mention some cantankerous, inflexible controllers (or do they only hate us little guys?).