Are there any combat missions ?

[reider]

The other point is, FSX is primarily a flight simulator and a pretty good one at that.  I have all the normal plethora of planes and add ons.  Included are some military models and non commercial flight systems.  Its still enjoyable to be able to fly all of them, without using any weapons systems.  As people have downloaded military aircraft for FS2004 to use in FSX then some new models are being made available to use with it too.  Even a new aircraft carrier is being modeled.  It is not up to us to question why, if people want them in there for whatever reason then its up to the individual.  I fly Appache, Chinook, Harrier and allsorts, but then I like to fly all models-as many people do.  If you want weapons too then CFS is the way to go, its all about choices......

Reider

[IndioBlack]

Not grumbling. Just thought Microsoft might have changed their approach. The introduction of Missions or Adventures seemed interesting, and because of the screen shots that had been paraded, it seemed as though they were embracing combat missions. They are not. Since that is the case, I have no interest in buying it. My questions have been answered. Thank You.
Now I shall power up CFS3 and go bomb Berlin.

[jnigeld11]

Why would you want to fly a military plane if you can only use a fraction of its capabilities ?
What do you simulate - being a ferry pilot ?

You simulate flying / piloting / navigating the aircraft, which is what FSX is about. Flying combat...that's what PLAYSTATION and X-BOX is for. Have you checked into Microsoft PC games like "Combat Vietnam" and such? Sounds like you want some simulator combat action but your not going to get what you want in that respect in FSX...sorry.  ;)

[IndioBlack]

That's funny, because CFS3, IL-2, WOV etc allow you to "simulate flying / piloting / navigating the aircraft" too. Weren't you aware of that ?
Flying combat is not "what PLAYSTATION and X-BOX" is for. They are for arcade action. I'm sorry that you don't know the difference between Combat flight simulation and Arcade action. Maybe you should try CFS3 and then you'll get some idea of what Combat Flight simulation is all about. A word of warning, though, it's a lot more difficult than you might think. You really have to get to know your aircraft, and push it to the limit. And you have to know your opponent's aircraft too.

I have a fair number of Combat Flight Simulators at home. Please don't recomend any more Combat Flight Simulators to me. I know more about them than any of you do. I came here to ask about FSX.

[jnigeld11]

And you were answered about FSX concerning combat simulation. No combat simulation in FSX. Recommendations were given to you here and you were answered by several here. No Combat simulation in FSX at this time. Add and fly military aircraft in FSX but don't expect combat simulation. Time to get off the subject of military aircraft combat simulation in FSX with things that go "boom"...there is none in FSX. If you have and know more about combat flight simulators, use your knowledge and those simulators...you won't get it in FSX. Get off the subject of combat in FSX.  

[IndioBlack]

[quote]And you were answered about FSX concerning combat simulation. No combat simulation in FSX. Recommendations were given to you here and you were answered by several here. No Combat simulation in FSX at this time. Add and fly military aircraft in FSX but don't expect combat simulation. Time to get off the subject of military aircraft combat simulation in FSX with things that go "boom"...there is none in FSX. If you have and know more about combat flight simulators, use your knowledge and those simulators...you won't get it in FSX. Get off the subject of combat in FSX.

[Brett_Henderson]

Now go play with your autopilot, I've got some real flying to do.

No.. it's more like;

[IndioBlack]

Gosh Brett you are so right. How brilliantly you've explained everything. How foolish I was to doubt that Civilian Flight Sims involved little more than flicking on autopilots. I am so impressed.
How I wish I was clever enough to fly FSX. How I wish I was as clever as you are. How clever of Microsoft not to include Combat in FSX.
Unfortunately, I'll just have to make do with CFS3. I may even buy a Playstation.

[Diddley]

Can't people just say 'No, there are no combat missions' and leave it at that. Why for goodness sake does there always have to be so much defensiveness and conflict in the FSX forum??

[jnigeld11]

Because you're always going to have someone who just won't accept FSX for what it is and feels FSX should be what they want it to be and not what it was designed for. I've seen the same thing in other forums and groups..."FSX doesn't let me play "dogfight and it sucks". My last post on this subject.

[IndioBlack]

Can't people just say 'No, there are no combat missions' and leave it at that. Why for goodness sake does there always have to be so much defensiveness and conflict in the FSX forum??

That's exactly what happened. Somebody said "No, there are no combat missions." I said "what a shame".

Then jnigeld11 arrived.

What I notice in particular here is exactly what you say: people are very defensive about Civilian Flight Simming. I think that's mainly beacuse people who don't do it, see it as incredibly boring, and see those who do it as sad bastards. I get that reaction if I say I like Flight Simming. But then, when I quickly correct myself and say that I'm currently flying B-17s over Europe in WW2, people usually get quite interested.
Naturally the reaction of most Civilian Flight Simmers to Combat Flight sims is that they are Arcade games. That's because they don't know what they are talking about. If you want realistic flight of the sort Brett's talking about, then you can get that in FALCON ALLIED: FORCE. There's actually a fifteen minute ramp start-up procedure before you taxy, if you want to do that. Most Combat Flight Sims involve knowledge of navigation and route planning. They include correct engine-handling procedures, problems with overheating, torque, trimming etc. They include the need to perform correct landing procedures on land or on moving aircraft carriers, day or night.
What the Combat Flight Sim adds to the things you get with Civilian Flight Simulators is the actual combat. Understanding how to push your machine to the envelope, learning usage of complex radar to track and kill enemy aircraft, learning how to deliver both dumb and smart weapons with accuracy.
And the Combat Flight Sim equivalent of FAA approval :  FA/18 Superhornet, which is used by the US military to train nugget pilots before they move to the more expensive simulators.

Look each to your own. There are no combat missions in FSX. Thank you for telling me that. I think that's a shame - my opinion.

[Brett_Henderson]

This is an honest question, and will expose some of my ignorance; although I have purchased and run both CFS2 and CFS3.

Aren't the flight algorithms pretty much the same; as in, how the computer moves the models about airspace ? Aren't the models themselves, (panel, texture, model, sound) similar enough that a CFS plane can be made to fly in MSFS

[IndioBlack]

Well the interaction between aircraft from CFS and CFS2 in the FS series right up to FS2004 was pretty straightforward. The only slight difference was that aircraft from the CFS side didn't fly quite the same way in FS as they did in CFS, mainly due to the fact that ammo weights weren't calculated any more.
But when CFS first came out, Microsoft were trumpeting how you could use FS scenery to fly combat anywhere in the World. That's why a lot of us CFS people went out and bought FS. I doubt the reverse was true.
The problem came with CFS3 where Microsoft came up with a completely new game engine, and you just couldn't get CFS3 aircraft into FS, or vice versa. Of course, what Combat Flight Simmers still want out of FS is the World scenery, and the scenery styles couldn't be more different.

Now I have no idea why Microsoft have diverged with these two strands of Flight Simming, either. It may well be Political correctness. It's certainly clear to me, from my short time on this board, that there is a general hostility by Civilian Simmers towards any idea of incorporating Combat. Even though the Combat side would not be compulsory. Presumably, they're afraid that one day they may be flying their virtual airline on-line, and somebody will come along in an F/A-18 and shoot them down. Well, heck, I could come along now in a Firefox and using terrorist techniques just crash into them.

But it seems pretty obvious that to add Combat capability to FSX would be a money spinner. Especially as there has been no announcement whatsoever about the future of the Combat Flight Sim series, which seems to have effectively ended with CFS3, and historically speaking, on the brink of the Jet-Age.
When I read the article that prompted me to start this post, I wondered if Combat Missions were the route that Microsoft was going, and I thought the possibilities would be exciting. However, almost before the first response was given, I had my doubts: Anything too good to be true, usually is. I figured the photograph of a WW2 Aircraft overflying an enemy ship and dropping bombs was just a cynical marketing ploy. And the response here has convinced me of that.

Okay, well back to the Pacific Theatre in WWII.

[IndioBlack]

Incidentally, since some ignorance has been shown in equating combat flight simulators with Playstation games, let me enlighten you.
Basically there are three types of Flight game.

1. Flight Simulation, which concentrates on the pure art and technique of flying.
2. Combat Flight Simulation which includes the art and technique of flying, but adds a combat environment.
3. Arcade Flight Games which use combat flying themes but make little attempt at authenticity, and often add unrealistic elements.

With Flight Simulation, the main thrust is as complete a recreation of realism as a home computer will allow. You all know and passionately believe in this.

With Combat Flight Simulation, the main thrust is as complete a recreation of realism as a home computer will allow. Unfortunately, some people get the wrong idea about Combat Flight Simulation because of games like the STRIKE FIGHTERS series which are regarded as Sim-Lite. That is, the realism is toned down so that people can enjoy shooting down lots of enemy planes. However, Combat Flight Sims can be as realistic as FALCON: ALLIED FORCE, where if you want to, you can go through the full 15 minute engine start procedure (every switch, every button, every pause to monitor results), and are required to master a whole range of radar modes in order to detect and eliminate enemy aircraft.
So Combat Flight Sims come in a range of flavours, with the lower end favouring combat over flight modelling, and the higher end giving equal regard to both.

Arcade Flight Games tend to disregard accurate flight modelling altogether, and concentrate on alllowing the player to shoot down lots of enemy planes, and blow things up. Where they diverge from the Combat Sim-Lite is that, often there is no cockpit view, and the aircraft is permanently seen from the outside. They also include fantasy elements like "power-ups", where if you fly through a floating marker, or blow up a certain target, you get an ammo reload. Often these games require only the use of a mouse or game-pad to fly - you point where you want to go, and that's where you go. Consequently they rarely support more than a simple joystick, whereas Combat Flight Sims tend to support the full paraphernalia of Joysticks, Throttles, Rudder Pedals, Multi-Function Displays etc that you Flight Simmers like to have.

The one advantage that a Flight Sim like FSX has over the very best of the Combat Flight Sims is the real World modelling. You can fly anywhere in the World.
Combat Sims are usually restricted, often for historical reasons. In CFS3 you're flying over WWII Europe, so allowing you to also fly over South America might be a bit crazy. However, fans have created a historically accurate Mediterranean add-on so you can fly and fight in North Africa, and even moved the time period forward to include the Korean War.
LOCK-ON, which is an extremely authentic Combat Flight Sim, is set in a fictitous war on the Crimean Peninsula. That's the map: just the Crimean Peninsula. FALCON: ALLIED FORCE has modern Korea and Yugoslavia. IL-2 has Russia, bits of China, and a WWII Pacific Campaign. I think most Combat Flight Simmers would like an authentic modern Combat Flight Sim where you can fly and fight anywhere in an accurately modelled simulation of the real World. But currently that doesn't exist. Maybe some company might like to try it.

I hope this has been useful to you.

[Brett_Henderson]

I'll have to admit that I've never given this much thought.. partly because combat simming doesn't interst me, but mostly, because civil simming is a never-ending, open-ended challenge. Between keeping sharp on real-world instrument flying, and designing a plane now and then, and even creating some custom scenery; I don't have any sim-juice left in me