A plea to Aces/Microsoft

FSX including FSX Steam version.

Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby Fly2e » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:46 pm

Alex, people can have a mature discussion on their views of FSX. Just because people are not favoring the new sim does not mean anybody is "bashing" them.

open discussion and different points of view is what is happening.

When somebody sets up their soap box and starts trashing FSX for personal reasons is when the delete button is used!  ;)

This thread is very interesting and has no bad flavour to it at all  :)
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby krigl » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:48 pm

[quote]

I want a SSC Ultimate Aero but unfortunately they dont make one in my price range
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby NickN » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:55 pm

OK
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby Brett_Henderson » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:11 pm

I love analogies  :)

If we're going to plug real flying, and full motion sims in here.. let's get some perspective.

I've been flying real planes pretty steadily for going on 4 years now. To fly an average of twice per week, for two hours each flight, with all associated expenses, is about $15,000/year hobby. Renting (or buying an maintaining) a full-motion simulator isn't a whole lot less than that. They're both so far above computer flying in cost, that the difference between keeping yourself in three-year-old computers, and brand new computers every year, is insignificant.
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby Fly2e » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:12 pm

[quote]I don
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby Brett_Henderson » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:16 pm

Good point  :D   And when my health grounds me (prob a year or two away)... I'm gonna build one heck of a sim-pit  :o
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby krigl » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:21 pm

[quote]OK
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby NickN » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:28 pm

[quote][quote]OK
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby NickN » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:36 pm

[quote][quote]I don
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby NickN » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:54 pm

[quote][quote]I don
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby Solid » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:58 pm

This is a very contravertial issue and some guys jump overboard on this But here is a thought:

I beleive MS uses the "same" Marketing for all its software and that is to me, a great mistake. Oviously Big MS can make all the mistakes in the world and it wont hurt them a bit--for now.

Many software companies use a startegy wich is the fairest I thing:

They put out TWO versions of the "almost the same" program...
                          Version 1: For those New at the software or who cannot afford the hardware
                                          to run the "enhansed" version or People who want to get into the
                                          game (in this case) but have a limited budget etc..etc...

                          Version2: For the "Experts" with all the trimmings needing the best cutting
                                         edge Hradware and oviuosly the highest priced version.

This way Everyone is satisfied.....The begginer, low end equipment holder will try it at a fair
price and in time if he so desires will go for the "enhansed" version..Knowingly it will cost him
more softwarewise as well as hardware......The Expert got what he was expecting!!!! or maybe not!!

Anyway this to me would be very fair.................Why not make an enhansed FS9.5 for the beginner and
FSX for the big guys.................

Bad marketing guys, that
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby Mobius » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:40 pm

Just a little interesting note about computing power needed for a flight simulator -

I am in Aerodynamics right now, and as part of the class, we just finished modeling a 2-D section of a wing profile on the computer.  The way we modeled it involved finding the forces on different sections of the wing due to the airflow around the wing to give us a lift and drag per unit span term (like 50 lb of lift per 1 ft span of wing).  Part of the project was to model the wing using first 10 different points along the wing profile, and working our way up to 1000 different points along the wing.  When the model was run for the 10 different points, computer took ~5 seconds to generate a value for the lift per unit span.  This model also gave a terrible approximation of the wing, with the airflow going in and out of the surface of the wing and other things that lead to a relatively poor model.  We slowly worked our way up to a decent model of the wing that used 400 points along the wing to generate a lift term, and to do this, the computer took almost 15 minutes of just chugging away.  Now, to model the entire flow over an aircraft, especially in changing flight conditions and configurations, would take hours if not days.

Now, I would imagine that with people's current views towards FSX, they would not be happy with a nearly perfect flight model and 1 frame per day.  So, ACES had to simplify it a bit and use a simplified flight model.  ACES could have stuck with the flight model from FS4 and saved a large chunk of resource usage, but people expect the flight characteristics in FS to be realistic and wouldn't be happy with a poor flight model and high FPS with all the graphics sliders all the way up.  The same goes for every aspect of the sim.  With improved visuals, flight models, sound, control, everything, you must devote more resources to creating those, so hardware must be built that can provide those resources.  Right now, that hardware would amount to $8,000 worth of new computer parts, so it's really not feasible for anyone to do anything about it.  An example of this is X-Plane.  I can run X-Plane and it looks like FS8, but the flight model is great, and I get the same, if not fewer FPS than with FSX.  So it's a trade-off.  

Since the FS series is hugely popular, it is safe to assume that graphics play a major role in the flight sim that people choose to use.  If it wasn't, this would be an X-Plane board, and everyone would be complaining about the awful visuals.  People cannot expect to get FS9 performance in FSX, with their FS9 hardware.  When has that ever been the case with any computer program?  Never.

The bottom line to me is, be happy with what you have, because you might have nothing at all, and you can't expect anyone to make a perfect product, so weigh the good against the bad, instead of only seeing the bad.
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby Brett_Henderson » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:46 pm

And hey !  If you want to add realism to your simming experience.. go visit the Flight School section of the forums  ;)

:)
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby Fly2e » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:13 pm

NICK,
REAL NICE LINK!!



I just sent my neighbor that link!
He has (I think) a 1997 Viper metallic blue with only 5,000 miles on it.
We went out to the Hamptons in it over the summer and stayed at a beach house with the wife and kids.
We came back on Sunday and I drove it the entire way!

500 Horses is allot for stock!
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Re: A plea to Aces/Microsoft

Postby Ravang » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:39 pm

This is just my personal view point, note I'm not some blind MS follower if I don't like the movie I get up and leave, if I don't like the software I leave it too.

But I'm happy with FSX sure the systems reqs. are a little high but compared to FS9/8 it looks and handles much better and the flight dynamites are more real feeling (like going into a stall the controls get mushy). And I was impress that I could navigate using my sectional chart, unlike in FS9 my local area so screwed up. I'm also impressed by the way the aircraft look, compared to the FS9 default aircraft the FSX ones are worlds apart. Sadly the ATC still tries to kill me :P
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