Forcing ILS Approach

[pwjoy]

I do all my flying IFR and pick airport destinations with ILS approaches.  On some major airports,  I get assigned a visual approach regardless of visibility or time of day. When I request an ILS approach, it gets approved with the requirement that I circle back to the original non-ILS runway to land.  When I fly VFR under the same visibility or time of day to the airport and request landing instructions, I get a message that the airport is closed to VFR.  I don't want to use the option to open or create an IFR flightplan because I get sent back to the orginal airport to start over with the same result.

What has annoyed me most is not knowing that I will have this problem when creating a new flightplan and spending time flying the flightplan.  Is there any option that will allow the ILS approach or am I stuck using trial and error to learn which airports to avoid?

[ATI_7500]

If the runway ATC vectors you to has ILS equipment, why don't you just use it regardless of what type of approach ATC assigned you to?
ATC does not know whether you're indeed using your Mk I eyeball to ride down the glideslope or your instruments.

[Sean Grenyer]

In my view the ATC side of FSX (or FS9) is the most unrealistic and annoying part of the software (although to be honest it would be difficult to make it realistic).

I nearly always ignore ATC completely, especially when flying my PMDG 737 as when using the FMC, ATC will always try and guide you on a different approach course. Normally I just use the 'nearest airport' option and tell ATC I want to land. It will then usually just tell me to proceed to base or downwind for a particular runway and leave the navigating to me (or in my case the FMC).

Not sure if getting something like VoxATC helps things?

Sean

[Nexus]

In my view the ATC side of FSX (or FS9) is the most unrealistic and annoying part of the software (although to be honest it would be difficult to make it realistic).

I nearly always ignore ATC completely, especially when flying my PMDG 737 as when using the FMC, ATC will always try and guide you on a different approach course. Normally I just use the 'nearest airport' option and tell ATC I want to land. It will then usually just tell me to proceed to base or downwind for a particular runway and leave the navigating to me (or in my case the FMC).

Not sure if getting something like VoxATC helps things?

Sean

Annoying or not, but flying close to the airport with the FMC isn't really how it's done at major airports either.  :)
There you can count on being assigned various altitude restrictions, as well as radar vectoring...rendering the nifty VNAV predictions completely useless...well almost  ;)

[Sean Grenyer]

Sorry, what I mean is for normal approaches using a STAR and the FMC, altitude restrictions are handled for you (as long as the STAR is correct).

As I assumed the whole point of a STAR is to save ATC more work in vectoring you into the approach, assuming normal conditions. Does this not happen in real life then?

I thought VNAV was set until the final approach altitude (say 2500ft above runway) and LNAV set until the APP mode is selected? (unless I think with autoland you keep these on and use the 2nd autopilot???)

Sean

[Nexus]

Sorry, what I mean is for normal approaches using a STAR and the FMC, altitude restrictions are handled for you (as long as the STAR is correct).

As I assumed the whole point of a STAR is to save ATC more work in vectoring you into the approach, assuming normal conditions. Does this not happen in real life then?

I thought VNAV was set until the final approach altitude (say 2500ft above runway) and LNAV set until the APP mode is selected? (unless I think with autoland you keep these on and use the 2nd autopilot???)

Sean

You would be surprised how few times you fly a complete VNAV descent (from T/D to GSIA).
It happens very rarely, especially around areas such as New York, LAX, Amsterdam, LHR and Frankfurt.
ATC will sometimes issue multiple speed and crossing restrictions, that are very much different from the STAR. ATC tries to maintain the flow, and modifying the aircrafts intended flight paths is necessary.

And flight crews generally likes to stay "heads up" when approaching the airport rather than programming the FMC when in busy airspace, that's why they use HDG SEL and V/S or LVL CHG

At many airports, planes are radar vectored to Final Approach, always.

This picture pretty much sums up what I'm trying to say
Aircraft is in descent in HDG SEL/ LVL CHG at 3.900', while about to intercept the LOC and G/S (both are already armed)
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1142452/L/

Have a good day  :)

[reider]

I can`t sort all the problems but lets just go over one or two things, then you can just pick out anything that applies or helps you.  You seem to already know what VFR and IFR are so we`ll leave the descriptions and get to the nitty gritty.......

1  On approach to a destination airport control will direct you to a runway suitable for the wind and weather.  If this is not an ILS runway you can use a back course button if you have one and the runway is the opposite end to the ILS approach.  Example, you`re given RW 28 which is non ILS where the opposite end RW 10 is ILS but you`re not vectored there.

2 As per above but 'choose alternative runway' appears in the comms radio menu.  Get the approach plate up on the map, write down the ILS runway and then go back to the comms radio and choose that runway.  Then ask the controller for permission to use the alternative runway you chose.

3 If you get the runway agreed then told to go around to the opposite end then this restriction is in force because of the weather and/or traffic flow from other aircraft.  In which case a visual approach has to be done.  Best to practice both anyway so you have this covered.

4  Should you be flying VFR and get no landing clearance can be given then this is due to the weather, it could be as simple as the wind but often includes visibility, maybe sometimes just low down visibility.

5 Opening a new IFR flight plan or loading one that was previously saved is no great deal.  I would hazard a guess you`re letting it take you to the airport it was planned from instead of saying 'no'.  On saying no, you continue where you are at the moment, ask for permission to fly IFR, confirm squalk code, confirm position on radar and then recieve headings from your current location to the destination airport.  At no point do you need to start over.

Hope some or all of this helps......

Reider

[pwjoy]

Reider,  

Thanks for the info. The tip regarding changing IFR destinations adds a lot to FSX flying.

I have learned a great deal from this forum and want to pass on a website that has been a Godsend.  I really dislike using the map page to get airport details.  Go to http://www.fltplan.com.  This site is free and provides all of the information needed to create a flightplan.  Log in as "pilot" with no password and click on airport info on the left side of the page.  I get the airport designation from my navlog and open the airport information regarding runways and ILS frequencies,  I leave the page open and refer to it when I am given landing instructions from ATC.

My original issue is best typified by KMCO Orlando International.  The ILS runway is 35R and the VFR runway is 35L.  Try to get permission to get 35R and see what you are told.  Fly the ILS approach and land.  I suppose I could turn the sound off and be happy that FSX is a simulator.

[ATI_7500]

Best thing 'tho would be getting all the necessary info before you take to the skies.

[pwjoy]

You are correct if you know what approach will be assigned. You can only preset 2 nav settings.

[Pappy44]

re: backcourse...that will just line you up with the runway...right?  It won't give you a glide slope, will it?

[ATI_7500]

You are correct if you know what approach will be assigned. You can only preset 2 nav settings.   If an airport has more than 2 ILS runways you will need to refer to refer to the approach plate to get the frequency and direction when ATC gives you the runway heading.

What about combining a Mk.III pen with a Mk.I sheet of paper on your desk to note all the runway info?

[pwjoy]

The website I mentioned above allows you to print the approach plate with all of the pertinent information.   I don't want to bother copying or using the IE7 print function until I know what FSX is going to do.  Then I use pen and paper for the future.

Cheers!

[reider]

re: backcourse...that will just line you up with the runway...right?  It won't give you a glide slope, will it?

Quite correct, never used it but its there.

Maps have been mentioned also, I use a live map at the same time as I`m flying.  It gives a map of 320nm, airport details, NDBs, ILS frequencies, radio frequencies, shows your course and a map overlay, allsorts and 'on the fly' (pun intended).  I only use it to occasionally check the outlying area, see where in the world I am and whats nearby (my Geography is terrible but improving), Free and on Avsim, look for ver 3 in the file section, search term Talal

Reider