Has anybody noticed this is missing.... PTaylor?

FSX including FSX Steam version.

Re: Has anybody noticed this is missing.... PTaylo

Postby Xyn_Air » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:03 pm

They removed the crash system in FS2004 but it was easy to re-enable by adding the line: visual_damage=1 to the aircraft.cfg file. The settings for crash detection would then allow a wing to be torn off and a flip, flaming crash if you hit a building, tree or other aircraft.


Wow.  I have both FS2004 and FSX and did not know about that feature to FS2004.  Can you add that line anywhere to an aircraft .cfg file, or does it need to go in a specific place?  I want to try this out.

In FSX you can still hit the building but it wont invoke any visual damage to the aircraft and have it spin burning to the ground. The sim just stops dead at the point of contact.

I don't care about buildings but what is WRONG with this is if I slightly clip a tree branch at a GA airfield in the mountains, that clip SHOULD NOT STOP THE SIM DEAD. If its a clip it should damage the aircraft allowing me to attempt putting it down. Furthermore if I tag another plane in taxi or clip one with my wheels in a situation like we discussed earlier, I SHOULD KNOW IT.


I can only imagine that programming for realistic damage would be one of the most mind-bendingly impossible challenges one could undertake.  I have seen real-life examples of a Cessna spin off and crash from clipping a tree during take-off.  And yet, there are other instances of aircraft flying back to an airport and landing after sustaining horrific damage.  I cannot remember the two aircraft involved in specific (one was an Embraer and the other was a Boeing, I believe), but two aircraft collided in Brazil and one flew safely back to the airport to land while the other was crippled and crashed.  And it was the larger of the two aircraft that crashed.  Of course, their have been aircraft that have also survived explosive decompression and partial hull loss.

Everything from fires to fuel leaks to decompression to hydraulic loss to hull damage . . . they would all be fascinating features to add to FSX to improve upon realism, but the variables involved would be astronomical.

That being said . . .

There should be some elementary physics that govern aircraft interaction with the virtual world.  Flying through buildings and other aircraft should be a no-no, while clipping that azalea near your workplace while doing a fly-by shouldn't result in an immediate crash.

What surprises me is that people are having both experiences.  I would have thought it would be all one or the either; either you go through everything like a ghost or contact with anything and everything would make you crash.

I will have to explore this and play around with the settings a bit to see what happens.  Until I popped into this thread, I had not known about these realism issues with FSX (just got the game on vacation about three weeks ago).  All I ever fly in FSX are the Cessnas, and this out in the middle of nowhere from sparesly-used airports.  Buildings and AI traffic have yet to be an issue for me.  But, I want to find out more.

If the overall measure of realism has actually decreased from FS2004 to FSX, that would truly be a shame.
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Re: Has anybody noticed this is missing.... PTaylo

Postby justpassingthrough » Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:40 pm

the line goes in the header list for each variation of the aircraft:

[fltsim.0]
visual_damage=1


[fltsim.1]
visual_damage=1


yadda, yadda, yadda


as long as the aircraft remains in some type of motion the breakage and crash fx display. The default fx were very limited in visual quality. To see full breakage take place the model file for the plane must have crash damage designed into it and those will display more breakage than ones that do not have that. Most of the default aircraft in FS2002-2004 have breakage designed into the models. As for the cheesy default fx, NickN and others have made crashFX packages for FS2004 that expands what the sim displayed depending on the type of contact.

I am not interested in destruction or FX. I just want to know when I make contact and that contact be somewhat dynamic with the action. That was all possible in FS9. Impossible in FSX. A leap backwards.

Part of flying is learning how to walk away when emergencies come up or mistakes are made.
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Re: Has anybody noticed this is missing.... PTaylo

Postby Xyn_Air » Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:50 am

Thanks for your help with the visual mod for FS2004.  I will try it out as I have time.

I am not interested in destruction or FX. I just want to know when I make contact and that contact be somewhat dynamic with the action. That was all possible in FS9. Impossible in FSX. A leap backwards.

Part of flying is learning how to walk away when emergencies come up or mistakes are made.


Agreed.  When I was talking about modelling realistic damage to aircraft above, I was not so much refering to a wow factor of destruction, so much as stating that modelling the simulator dynamics so that aircraft flight characteristics realistically change and respond to a variety of damage, including when mistakes are made, would be quite the challenge.  I apologize if I seemed like I was talking about turning the Flight Simulator series into an action movie.  :-[
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Re: Has anybody noticed this is missing.... PTaylo

Postby justpassingthrough » Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:12 am

[quote]Thanks for your help with the visual mod for FS2004.
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Re: Has anybody noticed this is missing.... PTaylo

Postby PhilTaylor » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:10 pm

The crashes dont work anymore

Yes, I have the settings for detect crashes and damage enabled and I have allow collisions with other aircraft unchecked so it has nothing to do with settings



Your settings must be:
Detect Crashes and Damage, Radio Button on.
Aircraft stress causes Damage, checked.
Allow collisions with other aircraft: checked ( you had this unchecked )
Flight Model Crash tolerance - I had it all the way to the right.

This must be local to your settings, as I just tested this with the Trike at SEAATAC for the following 6 scenarios:
Scenario                                                               Effect                            Animation
Trike Hitting Ground:                                             Crash                            cheesy flames animation
Trike Hitting Radio Tower located between airstrips: Crash                            none
Trike hitting ATC Tower:                                        Crash                            none
Trike hitting parked aircraft                                    Crash                            none
Trike hitting airport ground vehicle                          Crash                            none
Trike overspeed:                                                   Crash                            none

And I correctly crashed in all of these. The ground crash did have an animation for it, none of the other crashes appear to have an animation defined.

So anywhere we have crash boxes defined, when you use the appropriate realism settings you will get crashes.

The damage modeling is minimal by intent.

Note, this is all off by default, you have to turn it on.
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Re: Has anybody noticed this is missing.... PTaylo

Postby justpassingthrough » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:08 pm

The crashes dont work anymore

Yes, I have the settings for detect crashes and damage enabled and I have allow collisions with other aircraft unchecked so it has nothing to do with settings



Your settings must be:
Detect Crashes and Damage, Radio Button on.
Aircraft stress causes Damage, checked.
Allow collisions with other aircraft: checked ( you had this unchecked )
Flight Model Crash tolerance - I had it all the way to the right.

This must be local to your settings, as I just tested this with the Trike at SEAATAC for the following 6 scenarios:
Scenario                                                            
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Re: Has anybody noticed this is missing.... PTaylo

Postby Nick N » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:16 pm

Yes, thank you for clearing this up Phil

I think the problem is the add-on aircraft. Both John (miltestpilot) and I have replaced our AI fleet and remove all the default FSX aircraft, as many others have too. It is something to keep in mind if the subject may come up again.

I will get a look at the SDK this coming weekend and see if there is a way to enable the detection in replacement AI. I just got back from a long trip so I am not up to speed with the new SDK's

I suspected there was a possibility of something like that but I too assumed that because the AI replacements, designed for FS9, work in FSX that the contact detection would be the same.


It is VERY good to hear that the FSX aircraft will detect each other, especially the racing planes. That would be a bit of a disappointment if they didn't.
Last edited by Nick N on Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Has anybody noticed this is missing.... PTaylo

Postby MattNW » Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:49 pm

[quote]

Well after checking out the crash situation here is what I found


1.      With the default 747, and don
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