Trying to do realistic flights

[skysurfer2010]

exactly. practicing any instrument approaches right now before he learns VFR is a bad idea. especially since he plans on getting his license in the future.

take one step at a time! learn to walk before you run. learn to fly VFR before IFR.

[Subferro]

That was a great, and very helpful read. Im still just a little confused on knowing how to enter the pattern.  In the situation I was in, SouthWest and being told to land on a north runway... do I fly past it, and come back to enter the patter on the downwind or what?

Again, thank all of you so much for your help, this seems to be a great and knowledgeablel community here, and Im glad to see some useful contributions.

[skysurfer2010]

in the real world landing at a field without a traffic tower, you would be expected to fly past the field a little so you can enter on the downwind at a 45 degree angle. i wish i could draw it out for you since it would be easier to visualize.

when there is a traffic tower, the tower will usually give you instructions on how to enter. they might tell you to enter on the downwind, base, etc.  if they ask you to enter the downwind, you should still enter it on a 45 degree angle midfield (middle of the runway). if they ask you to enter on the base leg or crosswind leg you should still try to enter on a 45 degree angle so you can keep an eye out for other traffic in the pattern.

[Subferro]

Ok, lets see if I get this at all:

[edit]Linked Image removed. Please read the rules! You can read a copy here. [/edit]

Runway has a right turn traffic pattern

A- ATC tells me to enter base leg, I follow the grey line and then the green.

Now, if Im trying to enter downwind from where I am, would I over fly by going path B, or C? And I guess for all of these I fly towards the airport until I can see it before I start making a move.

[Brett_Henderson]

Are you still trying this in a big jet ? The reason I ask (outside of hoping you're trying to learn this a light piston first

[Brett_Henderson]

Now, if Im trying to enter downwind from where I am, would I over fly by going path B, or C? And I guess for all of these I fly towards the airport until I can see it before I start making a move.

Path C..  

Neat drawing, by the way..

[skysurfer2010]

you would fly the "C" pattern. you shouldn't cross over an airport unless you were approaching from the west side in the drawing. if you were on the west side, then you would be expected to cross directly over the middle of the runway. a safe practice would then be to pass at least 500 feet above traffic pattern over the middle of the runway, then spriral down once safely past it (past the traffic pattern too- you never want to be heading against traffic in the pattern) to enter on a 45 degree angle to the downwind.

the tower typically will try to give you the shortest entry such as a base leg entry if you were coming from the SW. however, i've been asked more than numerous times to enter a downwind leg at class D and C airports due to traffic. at class E airports (non towered) you'll be expected to enter a standard traffic patten like i described on the downwind regardless of traffic. the ONLY time i'll ever deviate from this practice (and i don't like to teach this so you should really forget it once i tell you) is when flying into an airport late at night. sometimes after listening to the CTAF from a distance out i'll shoot a straight in approach (enter on final) when i haven't heard any activity at the airport for a while to save time and $$$. if and when i do this, i'm making position reports starting 4 miles out when in light GA aircraft. legally you can enter anyway you'd like at a non towered airport, however in the FAR/ AIM (basically the bible for pilots which describes rules and regulations) it teaches the propper way to enter a pattern on the downwind leg. so if any mishap occured and you didn't enter on the downwind, you'd most likely be in some trouble with the FAA (if in the US).

also, you won't be flying a jet VFR in real life too often. a VFR approach, yes (flying IFR but then landing VFR once the airport environment is in sight), but not typically an entire flight VFR unless you're making a really short hop.

[skysurfer2010]

subferro-

Nice to see you catching on too. I think you'll make a fine student.

Brett-

"Every outer marker should be an NDB"

I'd like to rephrase that to "Every NDB should be a VOR"  ;D

[Brett_Henderson]

I'd like to rephrase that to "Every NDB should be a VOR"  

That wouldn't be all bad either    :)   .. except that would make for a WHOLE bunch of VORs at a major airport.. and quite a few too many VORs where lesser airports aren't very far apart. You don't need to select and track a radial just to keep from turning runway heading too early on an instrument approach. That's pretty much what I use outer-marker NDBs for..

[Subferro]

Ha, no Ive definately swapped to a 172 for all this.  I tried again, flying to an airport with no tower, but there was only one VOR between my start and finish, and I think the wind threw me off, because I watched the DME before I was out of range, and when I got close to where the strip should be, I didnt see it, I cheated and checked the GPS and I was off to the east.  Which brings me to another question... obviously wind correction would have been smart, but should I find myself off course looking for a runway with no homing, and no tower for vectors, how should I find it?

[Brett_Henderson]

That's the beauty in VOR's.

[Mobius]

You can also use pilotage and dead reckoning to get comfortable with navigating.  Use local landmarks to get an idea of where you are and where you should be.  In actual training, you learn to fly using landmarks, and using your heading with wind correction to navigate before you learn to use VORs (I did at least).  If you were planning and flying an actual cross country flight, you would take a marker and draw your course on a sectional, and find checkpoints (lakes, river bends, hills, etc...) every ten miles or so, so when you fly over a checkpoint, you can see, "oh, I'm on the south side of this lake instead of the north side, I should fix that...", that way, when you get close to your destination, you should be able to find it.  You can use http://skyvector.com/ for sectionals to use in Flight Simulator (only FS!).  You can also get the winds aloft in the FS weather window, and then use that information to find your actual course with wind correction, and your time between checkpoints, then you can time yourself between each checkpoint, then you should be able to time yourself to your destination and be pretty close again.  You can use http://www.csgnetwork.com/e6bcalc.html as a flight computer to find wind correction angles and speeds.

[Brett_Henderson]

Mobius' post is right on, as far as VFR navigation goes. And as a VFR pilot you'd use the VOR as an extra reference. But if we're trying genuine, IFR, radio navigation (as in, you can't see the ground  :o  )... you have to learn to count on accurate VOR use.

[Brett_Henderson]

Play with this. It's pretty slick

[Subferro]

Well see, I thought thats what I was doing.  I flew to the VOR, then it has me fly 10