Orbiting anyone ?

[Kaworu]

i aggree with Daube that it would be simlpe to create a space sim, as they have, but wouldn't you have to have separate flight dynamics for atmosperic flight and space flight? that might be difficult and expensive. if i'm wrong tell me, i'm no expert

[MattNW]

Actually I think MS Space Sim's problem was that it was too good. It's the same reason Orbiter only appeals to a small number of people. There's a steep learning curve and that intimidates a large part of the standard market. Look at some of the space sim "games". It's Star Wars physics with zooming and blasting because that's what the majority wants.

That's also the reason MSFS keeps things pretty simple out of the box. If you want lots of systems etc. then you get a payware AC. Only a handfull of people purchase airliners with all systems modeled and post on flight sim forums about realistic approach procedures and the like.

We at SimV are the few the proud the severely disturbed.  ;D

It's even more pronounced with a sim like Orbiter. It took me a couple days to learn enough to make it into a decent orbit. I doubt the average "gamer" would sit still that long. If they couldn't do it in ten minutes studying the manual then they'd give it up.

i aggree with Daube that it would be simlpe to create a space sim, as they have, but wouldn't you have to have separate flight dynamics for atmosperic flight and space flight? that might be difficult and expensive. if i'm wrong tell me, i'm no expert

Good point. Actually the physics of both atmosphere and space flight are the same. Newton worked it out hundreds of years ago. It's the atmosphere that makes the difference. Orbiter models it like X-Plane does by a core engine using Newtonian physics and then calculating the effects that aerodynamics and atmosphere has on the ship structure. X-Plane just puts more emphasis on the atmospheric flight than Orbiter. Since Orbiter is mostly a space sim it figures you will only spend a few minutes in atmosphere so no need for a lot of aerodynamics modeling. What you get is a decent atmospheric model and super accurate space flight model.

MSFS is different however. It uses a table to calculate aerodynamics. If the airplane is going X speed with Y drag and Z lift then the effects will be A. It's a little less accurate because you still get A even if X really =X.0001  but it's a lot easier on the processor. That's how you get so much more eye candy in MSFS. It doesn't matter anyway since the differences are so close you won't notice it unless you are comparing it to real life and counting the decimal places.

The drawback is that MSFS doesn't model space flight and can't until it gets a Newtonian model on top of it's flight model or dumps the table system completely. That's why I don't think you'll see a whole lot of space flight modeled in FSX.

Now what I think Daube was thinking about and what I'd love to see is a sim with the scenery and atmospheric flight of FSX and the space flight of Orbiter. That would be a helluva sim.  :o

Unfortunately with that I think MS would spend a lot of time programming a sim that most people would be completely blown away by the complexity and thus sales wouldn't be worth the cost. Also consider the rig you would need to run that baby and the cost would be astronomical (pun intended ). You think $60 is steep for a sim. One can dream however.  

[masmith]

Space starts at 62miles,100km,327360ft

[Daube]

Look at some of the space sim "games". It's Star Wars physics with zooming and blasting because that's what the majority wants.

AND that sucks !

[Katahu]

Look at orbiter, it's realy not that ressource demanding

For now. If you have the latest version, you will notice an increase in loading times and an slight increase in hardware requirements. This was inevtiable considering the new orbital calculations that the Orbiter game engine has and how detailed the new addons are.

[Daube]

Yeah well, what I saw is the amazing increase of texture sizes, for earth. This is actually the most ressource-demaind stuff of the sim. If you would keep with low resolutions textures as it was before, you would still be able to run it on a very low-range computer.

But I agree when you say that the more complex the calculations are, the faster CPU you need.

[masmith]

spacecrafts as detailled as the planes of FS, with a VC full of systems

That would be so good

[Ashton Lawson]

I don't think space physics would be too hard.  Besides.  MS already got the lack of air up there.

I slewed a Baron 58 up to the highest point possible.  I turned off slew and sure enough, my engines cut off, and I couldn't do a thing.  My instruments also went wacky.  I moved my joystick around, nothing.  started my engines, which just stopped again.  Eventually I fell to a point where the atmosphere was just think enough to get my engines going.  But it didn't end there.  I kept accelerating, untill the overspeed sign at the bottom right appeared.  I kept going, and was wondering when My plane would rip apart from overstress.  Then finally after 2 mins on overspeed, my aircraft overstressed.

After that, I though:
That was the coolest thing ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All MS need to do now is add rocket engines and thrusters.  Presto.  space sim (with detailed spacecraft )

[Katahu]

Microsoft already pointed out that addon developers would be able to create a space craft. In that case, it's pretty obvious by now that the FSX SDKs would probably have support for rocket engines and RCS thrusters.

Source
Conference Video

[MattNW]

I don't think space physics would be too hard.  Besides.  MS already got the lack of air up there.

I slewed a Baron 58 up to the highest point possible.  I turned off slew and sure enough, my engines cut off, and I couldn't do a thing.  My instruments also went wacky.  I moved my joystick around, nothing.  started my engines, which just stopped again.  Eventually I fell to a point where the atmosphere was just think enough to get my engines going.  But it didn't end there.  I kept accelerating, untill the overspeed sign at the bottom right appeared.  I kept going, and was wondering when My plane would rip apart from overstress.  Then finally after 2 mins on overspeed, my aircraft overstressed.

After that, I though:
That was the coolest thing ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All MS need to do now is add rocket engines and thrusters.  Presto.  space sim (with detailed spacecraft )

Piston engines will quit at high altitude in FS 2004 and you will loose control until you get down to thicker air. Did you try it in a jet?

Also look at the airspeed indicator. If it's truely airless you won't read any airspeed (make sure it's set to show indicated airspeed).

Ground speed is another way to tell. Without air your ground speed won't change. . If you are high enough to be out of the atmosphere, check your ground speed and if you are slowing down then you have some air dragging your speed down.

Microsoft already pointed out that addon developers would be able to create a space craft. In that case, it's pretty obvious by now that the FSX SDKs would probably have support for rocket engines and RCS thrusters.

I haven't heard that before. Looks like I'm gonna have to find someone to make me a Delta Glider for FSX.
 

AND that sucks !  :-/ But on the other hand, it's difficult to imagine a space combat game without star wars gameplay...

Agree. And also, just think how boring space combat would be with realistic physics. Search trillions of cubic kilometers of space for an enemy. Find them and plot an intercepting orbit. Fire missiles and wait for 6 weeks to see if you got a hit. Or alternatively patrol between Earth and Saturn for ten years and miss your enemy entirely. Hey space is big.

I'm not happy with that. I would really have prefered having 5 planes only, but fully modelled, than 20 planes that have only the lights and the gear switch working, like we had in FS9....

Same here but we aren't the majority of Microsoft's target customers. Believe it or not there are many many people who purchase MSFS and never add or change a thing and are happy with it as it is out of the box.

As for myself. I'm waiting for holodeck technology like they have on Star Trek NG. Then MS can change it's motto from, "As real as it gets" to, "So real you can't tell the difference".  ;D