default Jenny and Vimy unflyable

[jgf]

I recently tried both these aircraft again and find they exhibit the same problems I had on two previous computers - they require the stick pulled all the way back just to maintain level flight, even with full throttle.  Can't get either above about 1000ft, and easing up pressure on the stick the slightest amount puts them into a dive.  This can't be correct.

[Groundbound1]

Having never flown either IRL, I couldn't say for certain how accurate the flight characteristics are. However, you have to remember that at that time, if your aircraft got off the ground to begin with, you were doing pretty well! Underpowered, overweight, and made of wood, cloth and rope. Little more than kites really. I would imagine that the real thing might be just as hard to fly.

I don't think you're missing anything, that's just the way they were.

[elite marksman]

[quote]I recently tried both these aircraft again and find they exhibit the same problems I had on two previous computers - they require the stick pulled all the way back just to maintain level flight, even with full throttle.

[elite marksman]

I tried both of them out, the Jenny did need a little pressure to keep the nose up, but the Vimy flew without any issues.

[Daube]

Same here, no issues at all, and the Jenny was one of my favorite planes in FS9.
It has to be the trim.

[Capt.Propwash]

as already mentioned, its probably the trim, and/or the fuel / payload.  might have tubbyboy up front where he does not belong.  tell him to get on the tail and see if that helps.

[Nav]

jgf, if you haven't yet done it, it would be a good idea to read the Flight Notes on both these aeroplanes in the Learning Centre.

The key issue is that all those early aeroplanes were ridiculously under-powered by today's standards. This meant that they flew very slowly, and could only climb at what, by any sort of modern standards, was an 'imperceptible' rate.

The net result is that the Vimy, for instance (the one I know best) only had a cruising speed of 60mph, and could only climb at a rate of 1,000 feet per HOUR........ The Jenny didn't perform much better. And both aeroplanes appear to have been accurately modelled in FS......

What's more, even though 'trim' appears in the key-list, neither model, as far as I know, has trim control. The reason again appears to be 'accurate modelling' - the 'trim tab' had not been invented when these aeroplanes were designed!

I once had the idea of trying to re-enact the first trans-Atlantic flight (Alcock and Brown in a Vimy in 1919). I didn't manage to complete it because flying the thing was just TOO difficult and time-consuming - it left me with huge respect for Captain John Alcock, who hand-flew the thing on instruments, in ice and fog, for over 16 hours.......

[jgf]

I did read the notes (before ever flying the planes).  Neither plane has trim controls.  It isn't my joystick; which works well with all other AC (plus the problem has been consistent over three computers and four joysticks).  I have no such trouble with other vintage AC (the Wright Flyer is remarkably easy to fly; Kristensen's commercial Vimy flies well, as do an HP 0/400 and a Staaken RVI).

A typical Vimy flight for me is:  take off at about 60kts, climb at about 60kts to 1000ft (which seems to be its ceiling), cruise at 60kts, line up with the destination runway, throttle back slightly and land at 60kts ...all with the joystick held all the way back against the stop.

[DaveSims]

Check the loading and center of gravity.  As light as these airplanes are, a few pounds toward the nose will make them extremely nose heavy.

[jgf]

Other than adding alternate textures, I've left all default AC alone (made a duplicate DC3 to try some of the many mods for it).  Editing the files could make these two planes flyable for me, but doesn't explain why I'm apparently alone in experiencing this anomaly.

[Hagar]

You're not alone. I haven't tried the Vimy but found the Jenny almost impossible to control. I find it difficult to believe that this is realistic.

[Nav]

Editing the files could make these two planes flyable for me, but doesn't explain why I'm apparently alone in experiencing this anomaly.

We all experience it to some extent with these models, jgf - but you appear to be alone in having to keep the stick right back on the stops. Do you re-calibrate your stick regularly? I find mine gets quite a long way out-of-kilter if I don't line it up fairly often.

If you don't mind 'cheating' there's a very simple solution, anyway. Call up the 'aircraft.cfg' file and scroll down to 'airplane_geometry.' You'll find an entry there which says:-

elevator_trim_limit

[jgf]

Stick is checked frequently as it's swapped out with my wheel/pedals often (FS9 doesn't mind, but some of the racing sims become thoroughly confused by the plethora of axes and buttons available, so I only have one controller connected at a time).

Don't mind editing the cfg, but I'm type that wonders why it's necessary for me and not for so many others (especially since this problem has existed for me on three different systems, three different joysticks, and four OSs).

[Hagar]

As I said earlier, you're not alone. You might find this article interesting. Taming The Beast: How To Fly the Curtiss Jenny

I'm still not convinced it's realistic. If the performance of the Jenny was that critical they wouldn't have been able to do this. http://www.dhingana.com/video/lenny-carlson-seat-of-the-pants/related-mTgCn7fHvqw/1

[jgf]

Thanks Hagar, the tip in that article did the trick for the Jenny.