Landing the J-3

[Paughco]

Guys:

I mostly fly around in my Cessna 195, out of Arlington, WA.

[ozzy72]

Sounds like you're trying to land it like a nose-wheel plane.
Okay the trick with any tail-dragger is to get on final and rather than fly it into the ground like a nose-wheel as you get over the field close the throttle and pull the stick back. If you time it right you should sink gently onto the ground and achieve a three-pointer.... sometimes if you're too high you'll stall into the ground like a chicken dropped off a tall building but hey what is life without a few laughs?

[beaky]

No, the main problem is you're trying to land that lousy model like it's a real J-3. I was always frustrated by the default Cub until I got to land a real one a few times... now I ignore the default Cub.

It's pretty close to real in the air, but anything involving ground contact: terrible!
The real Cub can bite you badly if you are careless taxiing, landing, or taking off, but compared to that freakish model it's a pussycat. Not anywhere near as "tippy".
That's the main problem with the FS9 Cub- it'll drop a wing and cartwheel at the sllightest provocation, whereas in the real thing, even if you managed to lean it enough to touch the ground with a wingtip it would still most likely end up on its wheels with minor damage.

[b757]

in this case the difficulty or the fact its a taildragger would not help . the taildraggers are confusing.

[beaky]

in this case the difficulty or the fact its a taildragger would not help . the taildraggers are confusing.

They can be at first if you're used to trikes, but once you get it into your head that the key difference is that the CG is aft of the mains instead of in front of them, it all becomes clear.

But that default Cub... yeesh.  
If I had the time, patience and know-how, I'd like to tweak that file so it behaves a little better.

If anyone wants a nice little ragwing taildragger for FS9 that is more manageable, I recommend the freeware Champ from Long Island Classics, available here at simV. It's a fairly realistic model,easier to land, yet  just confusing enough to be interesting.

I have a lot more Champ time than Cub time in RL, and I can testify that the LIC Champ handles more realistically than the default FS9 Cub.

[Nav]

Landing any taildragger the principle is that you can't afford to stop 'flying' just because the wheels are down.

First, look up the recommended landing speed in the Learning Centre and try to get down to it before touchdown. Don't take the LC figure as gospel, though, a lot of FS types need a few more knots than the 'book' says, so experiment till you find the speed that suits that particular aeroplane best.

Second, my advice is stick to 'wheel-landings' at first, don't try three-pointers till you have a lot more experience - some FS types don't do them anyway, pulling the stick back too early just starts them climbing.

Third, once you're down, concentrate first of all on keeping her straight and let some of the speed bleed off naturally.

Fourth, once direction feels as if it's under full control, start braking gently. Not too hard, though, or you'll nose over. It's usually best to start with touches only - 'pulls and releases' on the joystick trigger (or just taps on the key).

Fifth, watch the speed, and make sure that it is well down before you attempt to lower the tail - otherwise she'll simply take off again! Take a note of the speed below which the tail comes down safely for each type and always bear it in mind.

Sixth, persevere with it. Once you get the hang of them the vintage taildragger types are a whole new FS experience, and one not to be missed.

[Paughco]

Guys: Thank you for the feedback.  

Most of the aircraft I download are taildraggers, and I have flown many of them without crashing - too much.  I have flown around in the P-26 that I believe I got from here at SimV.  Hey, I have even managed to hang in there until I got that P-40Q down in one piece.  At one point I had it down so cold that I actually landed it at the little airport in Concrete, WA!  

Somewhere I found a Supercub, but it was not fully finished, so It's "in the hangar" so to speak.  

One other strange thing: I downloaded a Helio Courier a while back.  Then I upgraded FS2004 and everything is just fine, except the Courier will not load for a flight!  That is a bummer.  I enjoyed trying to perfect the steep approach, short landing technique.  

Again, thanks guys.  

Seeya
ATB

[Boomervet]

I have about 500 hours in the J3, and another 800 hours in the PA-18 150 HP Super cub, towing banners, sailplanes etc. One thing I did regarding the J3 cub, is to dial down the sensitivity setting to about 1/8 inch off the left side of the slider. I also dialed down the sensitivities for the ailerons and Elevators. to about 1/2 inch off the left hand margin. Then in your assignments section, assign the keyboard left arrow to the left brake, and the right arrow to the right brake.
Landing any tailwheel airplane, be it a J3, or a Corsair, requires absolutely on the money, book value airspeed control. in the J3 cub, in real life, or in the sim, I use 50 MPH. take a look at the J3's stall speed. always compute landing speed to be 1.3 times Vso,which is 38MPH, that computes to 49MPH. that is the approach speed, you must be at to fly a J3. crossing the fencem pull power back to idle, and raise nose into a three point attitude, and wait. the J3 in real life will settle to the runway, ideally tailwheel first. In the SIM as well as real life, you gotta fly from back seat, if solo. keeping it straight in SIM, as well as real life is a matter of looking down the side of the airplane. Switch to virtual mode just prior to toychdown, and use your left and right arrows(Left brake..Right Brake) to keep it straight. that is how any taildragger is landed in real world, and how you should land it in the SIM. dialing down the sensitivities reduces the SIM's nasty habit of overcontrolling the airplane. A J3 is as docile a taildragger as you will find, if you use the right tecnique, and fly fly fly the airplane until you are stopped. Deviate, and the J3 will bite you just as badly as will a Corsair a P-51, or even the worst taildragger to land...in real life, and that is the AT-6 Texan. Nothing will bite you quicker than the Texan.

[newberiffic]

I have about 500 hours in the J3, and another 800 hours in the PA-18 150 HP Super cub, towing banners, sailplanes etc. One thing I did regarding the J3 cub, is to dial down the sensitivity setting to about 1/8 inch off the left side of the slider. I also dialed down the sensitivities for the ailerons and Elevators. to about 1/2 inch off the left hand margin. Then in your assignments section, assign the keyboard left arrow to the left brake, and the right arrow to the right brake.
Landing any tailwheel airplane, be it a J3, or a Corsair, requires absolutely on the money, book value airspeed control. in the J3 cub, in real life, or in the sim, I use 50 MPH. take a look at the J3's stall speed. always compute landing speed to be 1.3 times Vso,which is 38MPH, that computes to 49MPH. that is the approach speed, you must be at to fly a J3. crossing the fencem pull power back to idle, and raise nose into a three point attitude, and wait. the J3 in real life will settle to the runway, ideally tailwheel first. In the SIM as well as real life, you gotta fly from back seat, if solo. keeping it straight in SIM, as well as real life is a matter of looking down the side of the airplane. Switch to virtual mode just prior to toychdown, and use your left and right arrows(Left brake..Right Brake) to keep it straight. that is how any taildragger is landed in real world, and how you should land it in the SIM. dialing down the sensitivities reduces the SIM's nasty habit of overcontrolling the airplane. A J3 is as docile a taildragger as you will find, if you use the right tecnique, and fly fly fly the airplane until you are stopped. Deviate, and the J3 will bite you just as badly as will a Corsair a P-51, or even the worst taildragger to land...in real life, and that is the AT-6 Texan. Nothing will bite you quicker than the Texan.

I respectfully disagree with most of this post.

1. I would never chop the throttle in any tailwheel as they are all "flown in" as you put it. especially a high performance tailwheel (once you are on the backside of the power curve you have few options if something goes wrong) so chopping the throttle has never been taught to me, or by me to any student that I know.

In fact I teach the trottle chop ONLY in nosewheel airplanes.

"example" this happned just a few weeks ago @ EYE eagle creek. Flying an S2-C on final with power IN to maintain approach speed, set up the flare and started to reduce power.. looked out and a Coyote was on the runway straight ahead. Simply added a little power raised the nose and went around.

If this same thing was done "chopping the trottle" you would be over the #'s flairing airspeed below stall (rapidly decreasing)

[homebrewer]

Tough to argue with that. I think I'll go get a Starbucks...

[mustang51]

Have to agree with newberiffic 100%. I have RL time in taildraggers, almost all of my time, the largest the Otter, the hottest, Staggerwing, the easy ones, 7AC Champ, J-3, PA-18. Also Fleet 16B and Stinson 108-3, big vert. stab. can be a hand full with a crosswind, the Otter can make a fool of you also in a crosswind. The only thing harder than a Pitts to land and takeoff, though I have never flown one but have a friend who has owned one, would be the Knight Twister. Round engine, stick in the right hand, throttle in the left, small wheel on the tail are, IMHO, real airplanes. They will make a pilot out of you!
mustang51