Homicidal ATC Rant

[ozzy72]

Remember that FS ATC is slightly less intelligent than a cheese sandwich. However when over French airspace near misses and blocked runways are realism, in the rest of the world they're annoying

[JBaymore]

Thank you JBaymore for the funniest thing I have read all week.

You are welcome, Webb.  I tend to have a sick, dry sense of humor at times.  

I will be interested to see how the investigation proceeds.  

best,

......................john

[Nav]

Fun to get these 'blow by blow' accounts of your progress along the FS learning curve, Darrin. It never ends, by the way, that's the charm of the whole thing....

Boring old advice again! Now you know what can happen, you'll find that you can often pick up clues from what ATC is saying to other people (particularly runway numbers, distances etc.) which will give you some warning about someone landing on the same runway just ahead of you (the commonest reason for getting told to go around).

Another trick is that, while on final, you should make sure to set the heading hold to the runway direction, and check the A/P height setting. Also make sure you disconnect the auto-throttle early. If you have to go around, A/P off (if it's still on), full power, gear up, start progressively reducing flap; but then be ready to hold the nose DOWN as necessary while you get back to reasonable flying speed, otherwise the combination of full power and too much flap will have you climbing too steeply and stalling.........

Once things are under control you can re-engage the A/P and A/T and report the go-around to

[beaky]

I feel your pain, Xyn... FS9 ATC is insane. Period. And it's frustrating not being able to say what needs to be said, because it's not on the list of choices. FS ATC is probably the most unrealistic aspect of the sim.

BUT... you said Tower cleared another aircraft onto your runway; I assume you heard this, yet you were caught with your pants down when they told you to go around. What were you expecting?
Regardless of whose fault it is that the other plane was rolling onto your runway, there's no way that heavy will be cleared in time- you will, of course, have to go around. And the really bad news is that in real life, although ATC would get some of the blame, and possibly even the PIC of the other plane (you must listen to everything that's going on, and  you can refuse any command from ATC if it is unsafe; I've done it numerous times), the bulk of the blame would be laid at your feet, because those pax didn't die because Tower screwed up, those pax died because you botched a go-around.

[Xyn_Air]

I feel your pain, Xyn... FS9 ATC is insane. Period. And it's frustrating not being able to say what needs to be said, because it's not on the list of choices. FS ATC is probably the most unrealistic aspect of the sim.

BUT... you said Tower cleared another aircraft onto your runway; I assume you heard this, yet you were caught with your pants down when they told you to go around. What were you expecting?
Regardless of whose fault it is that the other plane was rolling onto your runway, there's no way that heavy will be cleared in time- you will, of course, have to go around. And the really bad news is that in real life, although ATC would get some of the blame, and possibly even the PIC of the other plane (you must listen to everything that's going on, and  you can refuse any command from ATC if it is unsafe; I've done it numerous times), the bulk of the blame would be laid at your feet, because those pax didn't die because Tower screwed up, those pax died because you botched a go-around.

Sadly, I did get caught with my pants down.  I probably made it unclear in my initial account (funny how everything can become very fluid very quickly when it all goes wrong) but I didn't hear the other heavy cleared for take-off.  I didn't actually know they were on the runway until I had peeked over my controls to get a better look at the runway for landing and saw another 747 on my (  ;) ) runway.  Right after that I received the go-around command.  That is what I get for not really processing what ATC is saying to other aircraft until too late.

But, you are right.  Regardless of all other problems (homicidal ATC, the pilot of the other heavy trusting the homicidal ATC, etc.), I should have been able to make a safe go-around.  It was a very important lesson in paying attention to all the details and never assuming anything.  Also, as limited as FS may be for 'reality', it did show how different a 400,000lb. passenger airliner handles versus a little, ol' Cessna.  I have done go-arounds in Cessna's and other light aircraft numerous times (especially when I was first practicing how to land).  The dynamics are completely different.  It makes one appreciate the training and skill that airline pilots must have to be flying those big tubes around.

As a random note, I will probably add one more "newspaper" report to the story and add that to a compilation of John's great contributions and my one previous "article". Many of you know that John previously lived in Japan and that I am currently working and living in Japan.  However, what you may not have know is that John and I did some "name dropping" of important, historical figures in those articles, with all but one of the persons being important to Japanese history in some manner.  That last individual is important to Boeing.  Might be fun, if you are looking for something to do on a "long flight", to look up those people.

OK, now it is time to get lined up for final approach to work.  Thanks, everyone, for comments and advice.  It really has been a great conversation, and I have looked forward to reading what everyone has had to say.

All the best,
~Darrin

[JBaymore]

[quote]And the really bad news is that in real life, although ATC would get some of the blame, and possibly even the PIC of the other plane (you must listen to everything that's going on, and

[Falcon500]

It makes me feel good when you come in with something heavy and something light is taking off, once in awhile you get that perfect (im landing and i don give a **** whats in the way) and you snuggle up right behind the one on takeoff without hitting them.  :D

[beaky]

And the really bad news is that in real life, although ATC would get some of the blame, and possibly even the PIC of the other plane (you must listen to everything that's going on, and  you can refuse any command from ATC if it is unsafe; I've done it numerous times), the bulk of the blame would be laid at your feet, because those pax didn't die because Tower screwed up, those pax died because you botched a go-around.

Rottydaddy,

I think you are being a tad premature here in assigning blame.  The issue of what actually happened will not be fully resolved until the Japanese Air Transport Safety Board has finished their full investigation into this accident and have issued a statement.  
In fact I was reading just yesterday in the Asahi Shimbun that the immediate supervisor of the young woman air traffic controller who cleared the other 747 onto the runway, Minamoto Yoshitsune, was found dead, apparently a suicide.  There was something about him being suspected of ignoring an SOS from the controller at the time, Haruhi Suzumiya, or giving incorrect direction or information or something like that.  So there might be a lot of complications here and other factors that we don't know yet.

 
LOL!
If the JATSB is anything like the NTSB, the ultimate blame will of course put on Xyn, despite all that.

Which would not be entirely unreasonable...

[JSpahn]

I cant get enough of the sim-debate, I represent the Johnson family whose son perished aboard that 747 on approach. We are in the process of developing a lawsuit for pain and suffering. I would like Rottdaddy to testify on behalf of the Johnson family.

[Nav]

Not sure you'll get much for 'pain and suffering,' Masternerd. Acoording to Xyn_Air he made a real good job of piling in - and a quick one, too. Doubt if the son felt a thing.  

[Xyn_Air]

(John) Narita-shi, Japan - A spokesman for the Japanese Air Transport Safety Board, Tokagawa Ieasu,   stated today that they  are currently investigating the recent crash of a 747-400 that occured as that aircraft was approaching the New Tokyo International Airport enroute from the United States.  Mr. Tokagawa expects that the full investigation would take many months, and assured that every avenue of possibility would be thoroughly explored.  

Teams are currently on the scene examining the crash site, and are searching for the two "black box" flight recorders. The aircraft had 247 passengers aboard in addition to the 14 crew members; there were no survivors.  Runway 16L at the airport is currently closed, and is expected to return into service within the week.

A source from the JATSB, who wished to remain anonymous due the sensitivity of the incident, stated that there is a strong beleif that this accident occured when an air traffic controller made an error and cleared another departing aircraft to utilize the same runway just as the 747-400 was landing on that runway.  A spokesman for Microsoft, who is the sub-contractor that supplies air traffic controllers for New Tokyo International Airport, stated that they had no comment on this incident at this time.

(Darrin) Narita-shi, Japan - As the Japanese Air Transport Safety Board continues to look into the crash of a World Travel airlines 747-400 at New Tokyo International airport, representatives from Boeing and the NTSB have arrived in Japan to help with the investigation.  The NTSB has sent veteran investigator Matthew C. Perry at the invitation of the Transportation Chief Nobunaga Oda.  The Boeing delegation is being led by Alvin M. Johnston, who has extensive experience in the dynamics of Boeing aircraft flying outside of normal operational parameters.
Both of the aircraft's 'black boxes' have been recovered, and though heavily damaged, investigators hope to be able to discover what happened to the airliner in its last seconds.  Anonymous sources within the investigation have discovered that Narita Air Traffic Control did indeed clear a second 747 onto runway 16L moments before the World Travel airliner crashed on approach.  That second aircraft was able to take off safely and continue to its destination.  Though not yet confirmed, it is suspected that Ms. Suzumiya Haruhi was the ATC controller responsible for directing traffic on runway 16L at the time of the incident.

(John) Narita-shi, Japan - According to a spokesman for the sub-contractor for the air traffic controllers at the airport, A.C.O.F. Ltd. which is a sub-division of Microsoft's FS9 Division, the pilot of the World Travel Airlines 747 that crashed this morning at New Tokyo International Airport apparently had very few logged hours flying the 747-400 model which crashed on approach to runway 16L.  Mr. Bill also said, "Our hearts go out to the families of the passengers and crew involved in this tragic incident."  

An anonymous source from the investigation and recovery team on the scene also has stated that the black box recorders have been recovered from the crash site and that a preliminary investigation of the data they contained showed that there apparently was no first officer present in the cockpit at the time of the crash.  This allegation, if verified, would be a serious breach of international commercial flight standards.  Mr. Perry, from the United States Air Transport Safety Board who is assisting in this investigation, said, "We do not comment on investigations that are currently underway.  The results of this investigation will be analyzed carefully and available at its completion from the Japanese Air Transport Safety Boards's official report.  I have full confidence in their abilty to determine the cause of this unfortunate accident".   World Travel Airlines was not available for comment.

Both NHK television news and the English language Japan Times are currently reporting conflicting versions of this breaking news story, with the NHK story stating that the 747's pilot had never actually flown the real aircraft, but had all of his experience to that point in a simulator.  

(John, with edits by Darrin) Asahi Shimbun - The immediate supervisor of the young woman air traffic controller who cleared the other 747 onto the runway, Minamoto Yoshitsune, was found dead, apparently a suicide.  There was something about him being suspected of ignoring an SOS from the controller at the time, Haruhi Suzumiya, or giving incorrect direction or information.  Various complications have arisen in the investigation into the incident involving a World Travel 747-400 at Narita Airport just the other day, and investigators are still hard at work sorting through the data.

(Darrin) Narita-shi, Japan - Investigators for both the Japanese Transportation Bureau and the NTSB have released a final report regarding the crash of the World Travel 747 at Narita Airport.  The incident was initiated when Haruhi Suzumiya, working the approach ATC for Narita, gave clearance to the World Travel 747 to land and then gave clearance to another 747 to take off using the same runway.  After realizing the crisis she created, and receiving no other instruction from her supervisor, Minamoto Yoshitsune (who was discovered to be at a karaoke parlor while on-duty), Ms. Suzumiya gave the World Travel 747 the order to go around, (cont'd)

[Xyn_Air]

(Darrin) Narita-shi, Japan (cont'd)  The pilot of that World Travel 747, Captain D. Cox, had logged less than 24 hours on 747's.  It was determined that while attempting to go-around and avoid the aircraft on the runway, Captain Cox increased the pitch of the aircraft too high causing the 747 to stall and crash into the ground just beyond the runway.

Speaking on the behalf of the NTSB, Investigator R. Daddy stated, "Any half-wit pilot worth his wings could have safely initiated a go-around in this situation.  Looking at the data recovered from the black boxes, I wouldn't have trusted Captain Cox with a paper airplane."  Speaking off the record, lead inspector for the Boeing delegation, Mr. Alvin M. Johnston said, "Not only could I have safely taken that aircraft around, I could have rolled it, too."

In other news related to the incident, spokesperson Ieyasu Tokugawa, speaking for Transportation Chief Oda Nobunaga, stated, "Upon detailed inspection of the incident site, the Japanese Transportation Bureau was surprised to find, but can confirm, that the only casualty was Captain Cox.  There were no other persons aboard the aircraft at the time of the accident."

Junichiro Koizumi, from the Tokyo offices of World Travel, was able to confirm this new twist in the incident.  Mr. Komizumi stated in a press release earlier today, "According to a copy of the manifest faxed to us from our Seattle offices, every seat was reserved by a Mr. Harry Stonecipher, who then had the entire aircraft loaded with Ichiro bobble-head dolls he planned to have sold for a profit in Japan.  By using a passenger aircraft instead of a cargo aircraft that would have gone through a different set of customs, Mr. Stonecipher had hoped to avoid certain tariffs on imported bobble-head dolls to Japan.  Apparently, this is not the first scandal Mr. Stonecipher has been involved in."

Speaking of scandals, District Attorney Hercule Poirot is investigating a fraudulent claim made by a Mr. and Mrs. Masternerd, who had filed a claim that their son, John Doe Masternerd, had been killed aboard the ill-fated World Travel flight.  As it turns out, the Masternerd's do not have a son at all, but they do have a poodle who is alive and well.

Rumors also persist that Captain Cox did not actually go down with his aircraft, that in fact, shortly before the whole incident he replaced himself with several kilo worth of spam in the cockpit and parachuted from the plane in the possession of several of the illicit bobble-head dolls.  Chief Inspector Daisuke Aramaki from investigation section 9 has asked all persons around the Narita and Tokyo areas to be on the look out for a suspicious foreigner in tattered pilot's clothes and carrying slightly damaged bobble-head figures.

---

Well, there you have it.  Mixed messages from ATC, poor piloting, and international scandal.  What more could you ask for?

By all means, everyone can continue to discuss psychotic FS9 ATC, worst case scenarios and best case responses.  But, just in case this thread fades into the sunset, I want to sincerely thank everyone for commenting.  When I first posted my rant about FS9 ATC and the woes it caused for me, I wasn't sure if it was going to be of any interest to anyone else.  I can honestly say I was overwhelmed by the response I saw from everyone.  Apparently, I must not be the only one who has had some exciting times courtesy the virtual controllers of doom.

So, thanks again, everyone.  Hope the tale, both "real" and "recounted" was interesting.  And, like I said, keep on mulling it over as long as you wish.

All the best,
~Darrin

PS
bobble-bobble-bobble-bobble-bobble . . .
~D

PPS
Bonus points to anyone beside John and myself who can identify all the names dropped in our "news reports".
~D

[JBaymore]

ROTFLMAO !

[scruffydog]

I also make mostly long overwater flights. I also make a point of "saving" the flight while enroute just in case something happens which  is/was beyond my control. I have had many flights terminated while making a ILS at the destination. Some are FS9 errors, and some due to CTD. By saving the flight at various points while enroute I am able to continue the flight. Try it.  Also, I am told that having traffic set to more than 80% will cause go arounds and conflicts on the runways.
Cheers

[Charlie01]

Nav,