Flight Tips

[a1]

I need tips for flights. Whenever I practice landing I always land correctly and right on the markers. On real as it gets flights i tend to land very wrongly. The landing conditions are so different in places. I trained to land at just a specific altitude. I think it must do with fatigue. Also i think it has to do with not knowing the area well. With real weather on the conditions of different places tend to get me lost and the next thing i know the runway is right in front of me and 1000ft below me. I never land right in flights and always messs up what the ATC tells me. Why is this and do you have any tips for me?

[Xyn_Air]

I never land right in flights and always messs up what the ATC tells me. Why is this and do you have any tips for me?

Aliens have implanted a microchip in your brain that interfers with aircraft operation, especially during landings.  I suggest you start flying wearing a hat made of aluminum foil to block the mind control rays.

OK, just kidding.  ;)

To help you out, I do have some questions:

When you say you do fine during practice landings but have troubles during "real as it gets" landings, are you talking about the difference between the landing practice done in the FS Flight Instructor lessons versus flights you have set up yourself, or something else?

Which aircraft are you using?

How familiar are you with landing procedures?  ARe you just sort of winging it, or have you gone through the training lessons first?

Where are the places you are trying to land?  You mentioned trying to land at different airports; which ones?

Do you know various ways in which you can check and adjust your glideslope?

When you say you mess up what ATC tells you, what is it ATC is telling you to do and how are you messing it up?  Pattern entry?  Runway selection?

And, last but not least, are you checking the elevation of the airport you are trying to land at and keeping that in mind that elevation versus altitude above sea level (what your altimeter would be telling you)?  I made the mistake of trying to land at sea level quite a few times at an airport that was at an elevation of about 1,700 feet.  Can make a big difference.

With some more information, I am willing to bet that someone here can help you.

[a1]

To practice I have a saved flight from the approch. I fly 737-700. That's the thing I forget the airport elevation. The ATC gets confusing at times during approch with all the traffic and stuff.

[Spades]

Charts! The Map in FS is helpful, but you must pause the sim to view it. On long flights, you can download charts or look up airport info and print it before hand (or during, all you have to do is disable the pause on minimize feature in general options and press the windows key to access your browser) and study the airport you are landing at. It is a good idea to have all the proper frequencies dialed in in Nav 1 or 2 (depends on if you use GPS) with the audio on to warn you when you're within range of your destination. From there, all you have to do is know the airport heading, dial in ILS, and follow it straight in. If you know your airport before you get to it, you won't even need to see it. All it will be to you is a height and course to be at when the DME reaches zero (remember to put your gear down, though!).

[TSC.]

Sounds like it's your approach thats screwed up, not your landings.

When you prcatice landing, you start with your approach already sorted, this is now catching you out - you can land fine, you just can't get the approach figured out.

As long as you know your altitude, your groundspeed & the elevation & heading of the runway, you should be fine. You ought to plan this out before you even take-off, you'll find it easier than pausing the sim later on.

What you really need to know is when to start descending, here are some calculations which will help you know when you should be descending & at what descent rate. Remember, the correct angle is 3 degrees:

Descent:

3 Degree Glide Slope Descent Rate: Add a zero to your indicated speed, divide by two. This should keep you stabilized on the approach. Ex: 150 knots on the GS. 150(0) / 2 = 750fpm descent. 120(0) / 2 =600fpm descent, etc.

3 Degree Glide Slope: To maintain a 3 degree glideslope (eg: ILS) multiply the groundspeed you are achieving by 5. The resulting number is the rate of descent to fly. Ex. Groundspeed = 110 Kts x 5 = 550fpm rate of descent to maintain 3 degree glideslope.

Double the DME for a 1000' ft per minute drop rate at 200 kts IAS. That would tell you how far out you should start the descent. Ex. I'm at FL230, cruising at 200 KIAS. I know I want to be down to what ever the IAF alt is (say 4000') before I get there, maybe 3-5 miles. Based on 1000 ft/min descent rate, if I start the descent when I am FL alt minus the alt of the IAF that gives me 19k to loose. This means if I start with 38 DME and add a fudge factor of about 6-8 then I will hit a point before the IAF at the alt I need. This is not an Exact science as under FL180 you have to change to the local alt setting. But, it does work and it usually has you down with plenty of time to spare

The distance to descend at 500 ft per minute. Equals 2 times the ground speed in miles-per-minute times the altitude to lose in thousands of feet. Ex. If ground speed in the descent is 155kts/180mph(3 miles-per-minute) and you must descend 8000ft, you must begin you descent 48 miles from the point at which you must be at the lower altitude. 2 times your 3 miles per minute ground speed equals 6 times 8 (your altitude to be lost in thousands) equals 48 miles.

I find this one is the easiest to way to get you in the right direction regarding descent, when to start & at what rate:

Distance To Descend (1) Take your altitude and multiply it by 3. That equals your distance in miles to begin your descent. (2) Now take half your ground speed. This is your rate of descent in hundreds of feet. Ex. If you are flying at 12000ft at a ground speed of 150kts and you need to descend to 2000ft, the difference is 10000ft. Multiply 10x3 = 30 miles out you must begin your descent. Half your ground speed is 75, add a zero, and 750 ft per minute is your rate of descent.

Ground Speed:

High Speed Aircraft: Ground Speed For relatively high speed aircraft- say 250 kts or better the quickest way of calculating Ground Speed using the DME (without G/S readout) is to note the distance traveled in 36 seconds. 36 seconds = 1% of one hour Thus if you travel 3.25 nm your Ground Speed is 325 Kts- voila!!

Ground Speed 1. To find ground speed note the time required to fly a published distance. 2. Pick a number that when multiplied by the flight time yields approximately 60. 3. To get that ground speed, multiply that number by the distance. Ex.15 minutes is required to fly 30nm (15*4=60)Ground speed equals 120kts. (4*30=120)

Long time since I've used the GPS but i seem to remember that it tells you the groundspeed anyway, so no real need to work it out.

Hope this helps,

TSC.

[JBaymore]

Another factor is weather.

In your practice session likely your weather is constant.

[dave3cu]

In addition to all the above....

To get a feel for how it should be done, file an IFR flight plan. ATC will 'guide' you to the final approach. You can then review the 'Flight Analysis' to see how it should be done (assuming ATC got it right).

Dave

[Nav]

a1, sounds as if (once again) you're trying to run before you can walk, just hoping that things will come right if you just go on trying, just by chance.......

First of all, get the hang of the 'Rule of Three.' This basically means that an aeroplane (ANY aeroplane), at a sensible speed for the type, takes 3 miles to descend 1,000 feet. So if you're in the Cessna at 5,000 feet, start your descent at 15 miles out. If you're in a jet at 35,000 feet, start it at 105 miles out (I'm NOT kidding ).

Secondly, if you get confused by all the bearings and angles, pause the game, call up the 'Map View,' and plan your approach. If need be, at first, draw it all out on a piece of paper. Then you'll have a clear idea of which way you should fly to intercept the runway line at a sensible distance out. And don't get bored and try to cut corners - I remember complaining once to an instructor in a real aeroplane how long it was taking to line up, and he just said, "Yes, you'll find that a lot of flying is just sitting and waiting for the bearing to come right - seems to take forever, but it's unavoidable if you want to keep things safe. Suits me - after all, I get paid by the hour..."

Thirdly, get down reasonably low reasonably early - like say no more than 2,500 feet 10 miles out. Then you can take your time lining up while still flying straight and level.

Fourthly, 'make friends' with the Air Speed Indicator and the 'Rate of Descent' gauge. keep the speed down to a sensible level while you're lining up, and lower the gear and a notch of flap early; and limit the rate of descent so that you can keep everything under control. Usually, say 600 feet per minute is about right.

[Brett_Henderson]

You gotta get the whole concept mastered, one step at a time.

Planning your descent/approach; Flying the approach; Dealing with various weather conditions.

Master this stuff in a 172 (much more forgiving and you'll actuall learn, as opposed to experimenting), and then work your way up the speed/size/complexity ladder.

Your cheating yourself out of a wondrous learning experience, that will build that "pilot frame of mind" (when it comes to cockpit and situational awareness), by doing your  "training" in a 737...

IMHO..

[RAFAIR100]

I agree wholeheartedly with Brett.      Maybe it's illuminating that you're asking for flight 'tips'.     Not the way to go about it.     Learn the basics and practice them until they become second nature.     Then you'll have competence and confidence, and wont have to go looking for tips.      I presume that you've been through the Cessna learning exercises.      If not, start now.      Leave the 737 in the hanger till you really know what you're trying to do.      Sorry, but in the real world there just ain't no short cuts to competence.

[Dan Morera]

I had the same problem, how I fixed it? Well started getting approach and ILS charts, studying them and understanding them, started using the AP a lot more. Always plan ahead the ILS frequency and field elevation.

Things to keep in mind for the approach, not all finals start at the same altitude, you don't always use he same speed, and AP can keep the plane lined up better than you until you are real close to land (2nm) Sometimes I take the AP off just about 1nm away from landing, the altitude I control I little further back.

Honestly getting charts, planning ahead and AP are the keys for me.

I hope this helps

Dan

[JBaymore]

........ started using the AP a lot more.

Dan and a1,

Using the AP is fine....................... once you know how to fly the aircraft manually.  Using such a tool too early in your development aborts learning important skills.  For example, those who are using FMC's to totally fly the aircraft before they could hand fly the route are missing a LOT of the possibilities that the sim offers.

You don;t learn to FLY by using a computer to fly the aircraft.  You learn to push buttons.  Systems are important......but they are only at MOST 50% of the picture.

Most of the information for the final approach is available right there on the instrument panel gauges.  You should be able to fly the approach as well as the autopilot just by watching the localizer and glideslope indicators and flying the aircraft down the "guiding light".  You can tell if you are high..... low, left or right simply by reading your instruments.  Ditto the general approach, as you follow the charts and read stuff like the radials of VORs and the DME's.

Difficult?  You bet.  That is waht flying is about.  Otherwise they'd just GIVE pilots licenses away.  

If you can't do this, you have no business in the left hand seat.  ;)  

So if you want "as real as it gets"...... ya' gotta' pay ur dues, man.

best,

.......................john

[a1]

I need site for IFR charts. Real life charts will also help.

Everything I do in the C172 is perfect including crosswind landings. I can land any prop perfectly.

[Dan Morera]

........ started using the AP a lot more.

Dan and a1,

Using the AP is fine....................... once you know how to fly the aircraft manually.  Using such a tool too early in your development aborts learning important skills.  For example, those who are using FMC's to totally fly the aircraft before they could hand fly the route are missing a LOT of the possibilities that the sim offers.

You are absolutely right, that probably came out wrong on my part, you have to learn to follow the entire thing by hand before doing it on AP, I actually didn't  find out we had AP until recently  :o Still navigation is key, charts are there to make things easier on you, they will set you up in way you can not fail.

A1 this is what I use for charts in the US and UK the "as real as it gets" place has links to more places. Look for STARS, SIDs, Approaches and Airport diagrams, some ATC don't like it when you don't know where a taxiway is.

Dan

[a1]

Got the charts and stuff. I made my most successful flight from KLAS-KSLC. Landed right on the markers. Approach was perfectly lined up. Thanks to the knowledge of the airport elevation and the charts.

Anymore tips will be welcomed but I think I get how to fly now.