737 Landing

[a1]

A quick landing question. How much does the 737 pitch down during landing? I usually have my nose pitched down at 5 degrees. Is that too much? What is the standard rate of descent also?

Thanks

[Isak922]

I usually try and keep the nose at a maximum of 5 degrees of pitch on descent, with a -500FPM descent rate. Course, once you get close to the ground and flare, the nose goes up quite a bit. I wouldn't suggest higher than 10 though, unless of course you don't like the tail of your plane  ;)

[Nav]

a1, I think you've got it the wrong way round. There is no 'standard' pitch rate - only the proper speed and rate of descent.

An aeroplane on landing approach should be going down like an elevator, not an arrow.  :) The procedures for a landing approach are actually the reverse of those for cruising flight; the old maxim is "Power for height, pitch for speed."

As Isak922 says, you should aim for a rate of descent of 500-600 feet per minute. If you are descending too fast, add some power. Watch the N1 gauge, in the 737 you'll find that 55% is about right for a landing descent. With full landing flap down (say 30% flap in the 737), you should keep the speed down to about 140 knots. If you are going too fast, trim the nose higher.

With practice you'll find that, by balancing trim and powerin that way, you'll soon be able to get the aeroplane following the correct descent path at the right speed pretty well 'hands off' - it's a nice feeling and means that you'll be able to relax and line up for the final approach, flare, and landing in good style.

[a1]

I never have my pitch lower then 5 degrees during landing. With I slow down it seems that my nose just drops down. I compensate with trim and i fin myself too high. Can anyone give me some tips on a good approach.

[born_2_fly]

I never have my pitch lower then 5 degrees during landing. With I slow down it seems that my nose just drops down. I compensate with trim and i fin myself too high. Can anyone give me some tips on a good approach.

Did you read what Nav just said?

The Nose will obviously pitch down if you decrease speed, and you cannot, or should not, fully compensate for this with trim. I would say trim about 75% of the nose attitude, and keep the remaining 25% using manual, back stick pressure, decrease throttles to loose height.

Alex

[Nav]

With I slow down it seems that my nose just drops down. I compensate with trim and i fin myself too high.

Not sure you're listening, a1 - but I'll try again in case it helps other people.

The thing you have to remember is that aeroplanes are not like cars or bicycles. They work in three dimensions, not two. It is our luck that FS models that difference perfectly. PLEASE get the hang of two things.

As I tried to explain:-

1. The way to slow down on a landing approach is NOT to cut power, it is to raise the nose.

2. The way to reduce the rate of descent is to add power.

I suspect that you are trying to 'drive' the thing like a car. To 'slow down' you reduce power, to land you aim the nose straight down at the runway. Both those things are just plain wrong.

What's more, you have to give the aeroplane time to react. It is not in contact with the ground, it's working in a fluid medium. When I say 'raise the nose' or 'add power' I don't mean huge sudden movements, I mean a light touch here and there, after which you wait for the aircraft to respond.

I'd strongly recommend three things:-

1. Do some of the flying lessons. They're not perfect, but they give you a start (especially the first few, including the landing ones).

2. Fly the Cessnas first, NOT the big jets. Al real pilots start with the small stuff, for good reasons.

3. Don't spend all evening just flying around and then find out the hard way that every landing is a disaster. Save a flight say twenty miles out, and then use it again and again to practise your landings until they're perfect - or, at the least, pretty good. Saves time in the long run.

[a1]

OK thanks. I get it now after i read all of them again.

[Nav]

Cheers, a1 - 'happy landings' from now on!  :)

[a1]

OK so I understand that i need to slow down to get down but i usually have my approch at 220 knots. I slow to 200knots at 10NM out from the runway. By then i have set flaps to 5. I reduce thrust to around 42% N1 to have more of a speed control. 55 N1 makes my plane climb. I add 10flaps wheni am at 170knots. But as i add flaps the plane doesn't go down. I do all of the pitch up and thrust levels that you said but sometimes i don't get the right combination to land. I always end up going to idle to get the plane to slowly go down.

Why is this. I have been practiceing for a week now as you said and I just don't get the plane down correctly. Either it's too high or not lined up.

[Jakemaster]

Do you fly IFR?  ATC does a good job of getting you at a good altitude and position to begin your approach.  I get a feeling that you are much too high to begin with and so you don't give yourself enough room to properly land the plane

[Cessna93]

I add 10flaps wheni am at 170knots. But as i add flaps the plane doesn't go down correctly

Flaps give you lift at slower speeds so more flaps give you more lift, thats why you aint going down.

[Nav]

Full marks for effort, a1!

I suspect that the main problem is that you're not giving the aeroplane time to react - plus, your speeds are STILL too high, 180 and 5 degrees of flap as you start your descent, get it down to 140/30 degrees for the final approach.

About 'time to react' - the purpose of flaps is to generate extra lift at low speed. So as you lower them the aeroplane's nose will tend to pitch up a little - especially if you're going too fast. Give it a little time and it will settle back on to the glideslope. With experience, you'll learn to ease the stick a little forward as you lower them, if it's necessary to compensate.

Have you tried that landing lesson in the Cessna yet? I assure you you'll find a light aeroplane much better to learn the ropes on.

The other alternative is to follow this through using the autopilot - then 'subtract' the auto-throttle and autopilot earlier and earlier in the approach until you can do the whole thing manually.

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=COF;action=display;num=1111322151

Keep practising, stick at it, it WILL come right.........and you'll wonder why you ever doubted that it would.

[Cessna93]

Have you tried that landing lesson in the Cessna yet? I assure you you'll find a light aeroplane much better to learn the ropes on.

Exactly how I learned my ropes and not a bad way either. After that just keep donig it and you should get it, or move onto the harder lessons on there.

[Brett_Henderson]

2. Fly the Cessnas first, NOT the big jets. Al real pilots start with the small stuff, for good reasons.

Best, possible advice

[Zaphod]

With I slow down it seems that my nose just drops down. I compensate with trim and i fin myself too high.

1. The way to slow down on a landing approach is NOT to cut power, it is to raise the nose.

2. The way to reduce the rate of descent is to add power.

This has been a very interesting thread.
I notice that no mention has been made so far as to the use of "Spoilers".
On nearly all the comercial flights I have made (and that's quite a few) the pilots have almost always found it necessary to use the spoilers to control some aspect of the decent. I assume it's mainly to control the speed.
I realise that the action of the spoilers isn't well modelled in FS2004 (all or nothing) but I thought it worth a mention.

Zaphod.