ILS Landings. Wow.

[beaky]

I haven't flown the Concorde, but I can usually do a fair job of manually intercepting and following the ILS localizer and glideslope in a number of planes. Because of the energy-managemnt requirements of jets, I find it a lot easier to at least use the ILS than to try to "wing it" with a visual approach from cruise. Even more helpful is following the published approach procedure.
I suppose one could do a strictly visual approach in Concorde: no navaids, no AP... but I doubt it was ever done that way. All airline flights are on IFR plans, and it's not like they get vectors-to-final whenever they want it. A proper approach almost always utilizes some sort of navaid, even if conditions are VMC.

[Nexus]

It's called pratice pratice pratice. If people could be bovvered to turn up to my flight lesson they could learn some new stuff.

It's not about skill.
But in order to comply with regulations you are obligated to use the required navaids.
Do you think a 737-skipper with 3.000hrs on the left seat actually NEEDS ILS during an approach in good conditions?
Of course not, the guy could wing it perfectly, even blindfolded ( )

But you seem to believe that ILS are only for dummies. Well...I guess it's time for you to educate yourself better then.
I'd be surprised if you couldt actually teach me (and Rotty, and Vololiberista) anything I didnt know about flying. But oh well.

[concordepilot]

I could give it a go. Be fun telling you 3 what to do and how to fly propally.

[TSC.]

I could give it a go. Be fun telling you 3 what to do and how to fly propally.

You might want to try spelling properly first.



TSC.

[ashaman]

You sure redefine humbleness with your writings. Really we're all waiting for you to illumine us on how to fly better.


Personally, I admit my ignorance. I'm far from the better ones out there. I admit freely my limits and that there's a lot of people better than me. In everything, by the way.


The only thing I'm sure of is that I don't need lessons from people that boast say they know better that the rest of the community.

[concordepilot]

You sure redefine humbleness with your writings. Really we're all waiting for you to illumine us on how to fly better.


Personally, I admit my ignorance. I'm far from the better ones out there. I admit freely my limits and that there's a lot of people better than me. In everything, by the way.


The only thing I'm sure of is that I don't need lessons from people that boast say they know better that the rest of the community.

1. I AM NOT boasting.
2. I started off saying I never use ILS as I don't use them.
3. And I aint the best flyer in the world.

[Brett_Henderson]

Concordepilot wrote:

I started off saying I never use ILS as I don't use them.

I know this was kind of touched on earlier, but it was never answered...

So.. how do you find your way down to the runway in 1/2 mile visibility ?

[concordepilot]

1/2 of visabilty is just as I genraly know the area in which I am flying, for instance just from flying heathrow I can fly directly to Bristol without any instruments as I know were I am going in the UK. If I don't know were I am and I happen to past Cardiff airport I will know were Bristol or Filton is. Thats why I mainly fly in the UK. If i was in America in that situation I would be stuffed.

[Brett_Henderson]

You can put a Concorde on the runway, 1/2 mile visibility, no ILS ?

[Nexus]

I could give it a go. Be fun telling you 3 what to do and how to fly propally.

..And flying properly means you take advantage of every navaid you can.
Even if you DONT need them for the actual landing, but for timing/cross checks and eventual G/A procedures.

Is it clearer for you now or should I try to make pictures?

[beaky]

I could give it a go. Be fun telling you 3 what to do and how to fly propally.

You could probably teach me something about Concorde, but not about flying.

My PPASEL doesn't count for much in FS9- the sim is much harder, and big jets are completely different in most ways than the planes I fly in RL-  but speaking strictly in terms of the sim, I think I have a pretty good idea how to make a visual approach and landing, or even a non-ILS instrument landing, and I manage reasonably well navigating with only compass, chart and clock.
But I enjoy the challenge of working things out so that the navaids can be used properly. Hand-flying an ILS approach (or using the autopilot, even)  is hardly a cop-out to technology, believe me. It requires piloting skill. A major enhancement has been to get my hands on several books of real approach plates, so I can really do it the "right" way. I've got a long way to go, but I"m getting better at it.
 

But "sim and let sim" is my motto; if you want to fly Concorde under VFR practically in your own back yard and not really operate it as it was intended, more power to you.  I don't do a lot of proper IFR flying in FS9 (mostly because ATC is so dimwitted in the sim it's impossible half the time to do it right), but the airliner experience, IMHO, should involve things like ILS procedures.
There's so much more to flying airplanes like Concorde: just hopping around England weekend-warrior style in the Concorde is sort of like only taxiing the cub and never leaving the ground.
If you enjoy that, fine... but it doesn't make you a master of the Cub.  ;)

[YSHT]

I dont think many "needs" ILS, but you're not flying very realisticly by not using it.[/quote]

Sorry to break your faith in the FS but the landings probably could be better. For example a mild 5Kt crosswind csn send you facing 45 degrees to the left in FS, but even in the small light aeroplane I fly it takes something around the 25Kt gust to put you off only a few degrees. Not saying the FS is totally cr*p, but when you say "realistic" it might be more of a "challenging" way in the context you put it.

By the way, sorry if I have interrupted the forum but i haven't checked for ages and couldn't resist saying it. Sorry ;-) 8-)

[Nexus]

I dont think many "needs" ILS, but you're not flying very realisticly by not using it.

Sorry to break your faith in the FS but the landings probably could be better. For example a mild 5Kt crosswind csn send you facing 45 degrees to the left in FS, but even in the small light aeroplane I fly it takes something around the 25Kt gust to put you off only a few degrees. Not saying the FS is totally cr*p, but when you say "realistic" it might be more of a "challenging" way in the context you put it.

By the way, sorry if I have interrupted the forum but i haven't checked for ages and couldn't resist saying it. Sorry ;-) 8-)[/quote]


Since I only fly airliners in the sim, I try to simulate airline ops as much as I can. And since the use of ILS is VERY extensive, I tend to use it whenever it is available. Just like they would IRL.

And 25kts to the side is quite much. Some autopilots arent certified to autoland in more than 15kts x-wind. And you will have a nice drift angle at 25kts!

[Brett_Henderson]

For example a mild 5Kt crosswind csn send you facing 45 degrees to the left in FS

Never ever have I experienced this.. In fact.. compared to R/L.. the sim is a little on the "easy" side when it comes to managing X-wind landings. I don't even notice a 5kt X-wind component in the sim.

All said and done though.. the sim does a marvelous job of representing the extra attention needed during a good X-wind landing. I rewards you (just like R/L) for getting the wing down early and getting on that rudder early.. and conversely... you can have your hands full if you wait until round-out/flare to start correcting.

This is most evident in FSX and all but requires a yoke and pedals too..