747 Descent speed question

[visualchaosfx]

I'm doing a flight right now from Manila, Phillipines to Tokyo, Japan. I've been practicing to land without using the approach hold button. I'm 7 miles out from runway 34R. ATC has given me a descent of 3000 and I'm to maintain that until I'm established on the localizer. Earlier when I was flying the approach, I would activate the Approach hold at exactly 5 miles from the runway. I'd land safely. Now I'm trying to do this without the Approach hold button but I'm having trouble deciding what to set the altimeter to... well actually I set that to 500ft right after 5 miles but its the verticle speed I'm having trouble with. I've tried -500 and its slow to descend and I've tried -1000 and I descend to quickly.

Should I start my descent 10 or 12 miles out at maybe -700?

[Conan Edogawa]

Try to land by hand!

No, serious. I've tested the descent rate on several airports. They're (at least in FS9) quite different to each other. This runway has about -700, the other -850. It's simply different.

And I always land manually!

Many happy landings!

[ashaman]

If you want to land manually, there are always the PAPI lights giving you the best descent angle for the runway you're landing in. And this is true for every and any airport. Uncontrolled strips (the ones that in FS are only a runway, and a short one at that) are a different story and not really the issue here.

[pepper_airborne]

Yes indeed, you should land by hand and make small adjustments in the throttle to control te vertical speed and small changes in the angle to adjust the horizontal speed, works like a charm.

[Conan Edogawa]

When I'm saying I'm landing by hand I don't mean VFR. Then I just mean ILS but without AP.

[BAW0343]

http://www.flightsim.com/howto/fly737/fly737_html_4c2fd428.jpg  Check out that pic. See the area outlined in purple? If your landing in ILS conditions you should have those visible. It may look a little different since that page if for what looks like a 737. Basically get the little triangle on that line and follow it to the ground, It works just like PAPI lights do but its in your cockpit. Next time you do an autoland watch that part of the instruments as the plane flys and you will see where you should line it up.

Have fun and don't crash  :D [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

[Nav]

Not sure that I've fully understood your problem, visualchaosfx, but it sounds as if you're trying to land by using the autopilot, but not setting it to follow the ILS glidepath automatically?

If that's it, part of the answer is to use the instruments - particularly the 'Situation Indicator,' the VOR1 gauge.

[ashaman]

Let me get this straight, you'd like to fly completely manually an ILS procedure? :-?


Masochists, aren't we?


If you really like to do that though, my suggestion is to take a plane which panel has a HUD. It helps a lot to have the most important informations directly in front of you superimposed to the outside view of the simulated world.

[visualchaosfx]

Ok this is what I was talking about:

http://www.visual-chaos.com/landing_with_no_app.wmv

For some reason Fraps didn't record audio so I stuck in some music.

Phil Colins - In the Air Tonite

[Conan Edogawa]

Let me get this straight, you'd like to fly completely manually an ILS procedure? :-?


Masochists, aren't we?


If you really like to do that though, my suggestion is to take a plane which panel has a HUD. It helps a lot to have the most important informations directly in front of you superimposed to the outside view of the simulated world.

What d'you mean? I always do my ILS-procedures manually...

I don't really think about my descent rate. I fly the altitude the tower gives me until I reach the ILS-line. Then I start descending similar to the ILS-line and land safely on the runway.  :D

[FridayChild]

I believe that in real life airline pilots are required to do a manual landing every now and then in order to keep trained.

[ashaman]

I believe that in real life airline pilots are required to do a manual landing every now and then in order to keep trained.

They do, but I believe they do visuals, not low visibility ILS landings. And when ILS must be followed by hand (say, an autopilot problem) you need either a HUD (to do it all alone) or someone who watches outside and keeps you updated on the outside world's visibility while you keep your eyes on the instruments (after all ILS is a low visibility landing). And seen that in FS you don't have a co-pilot to look out for you, better find a HUD gauge if you find in yourself the need to follow the ILS beams by hand.

[Conan Edogawa]

I believe that in real life airline pilots are required to do a manual landing every now and then in order to keep trained.

They do, but I believe they do visuals, not low visibility ILS landings. And when ILS must be followed by hand (say, an autopilot problem) you need either a HUD (to do it all alone) or someone who watches outside and keeps you updated on the outside world's visibility while you keep your eyes on the instruments (after all ILS is a low visibility landing). And seen that in FS you don't have a co-pilot to look out for you, better find a HUD gauge if you find in yourself the need to follow the ILS beams by hand.

I was lucky to get into a cockpit and joint the landing in this A318 of Air France. He had ILS and flew after it and compaired it with visual. Which means the normal approach was ILS and when we got closer the pilot landed the Airbus using PAPI. One of my very favourite days of my life (...I think I don't have to mention that... )

I think, landing manually with ILS is much harder than landing visual.

[visualchaosfx]

I'm really getting the hang of this now. I just did a flight from San Fransico to...... San Fransisco. I went into the FS2004 flight planner, and mapped out which waypoints I would hit in order to get lined up with ILS runway 24R, entered them into the FMC and programed the arrival runway into it and went on my merry way and landed safely. Now I'm gonna start adding wind into my flight simulations and see if I can land with a little wind out there lol.