ATC problems with touch and go's

[FridayChild]

I am practicing touch and go's, and I have noticed that after I have performed the manoeuvre, the ATC menu does not change, like I had not touched down yet. The choices are:
1) Request full stop landing
2) Request airport directions
3) Cancel landing intentions
To have the option to touch and go again, I have to first choose 3) and then request another touch and go.
I think that perhaps FS only considers the touch and go completed if the plane slows down below a certain speed?
Or else what may be preventing ATC to acknowledge that I have "touched and went" already?
This is all the more strange, because during one of the approaches there was a liner asking for clearance to take off. It was told to hold short for me to come in. I did the touch and go, and seconds after I was airborne again (too soon, IMO anyway) the liner was cleared to line up. So the ATC did notice that I had touched; then why didn't the menu present me with the correct options?
This does not happen always.
I hope I made myself clear, I'm a bit tired and not feeling too good so my english has gone down the hill a bit...

[matt2190]

There is no problem. Just keep flying in the pattern and ATC will clear you for another touch and go usually when you are on your downwind leg.

[BAW0343]

In FS ATC expects you to do T and G's until you ask for full stop. So you eternally cleared to make a T and G's  keep making circles and you'll be fine.

[FridayChild]

And that means the tower will take care of the traffic, giving me the precedence over anybody until I decide I've had enough?

[ashaman]

Fri, when you start a new flight everywhere FS9 has a controller, when pressing on the key to activate ATC window you'll have the option to start a VFR flight remaining on pattern. Selecting that is all you need to start doing T&G's at will.

[FridayChild]

Yep, this I know. Doing so will result in a touch and go endless loop. But I was looking for a cleaner way to take off, then decide to do *some* touch and gos, then land. All this asking the tower clearance every time, for each manoeuvre. Apparently it's impossible in FS2004...  :-?

[ashaman]

I have to admit to have never done T&G's with ATC. My last time doing T&G go back with FS4, and at the time ATC and AI traffic were not modeled and I could do as I pleased without fear of being interrupted. 8-)

Anyway, wouldn't work that once you're tired of spinning, simply tell the tower that you want a of a full stop landing? :-?

[FridayChild]

Uh no, I want to know if there's traffic in the pattern or on the runway before turning on final... don't want to step on anyone's toes, expecially if "anyone" is a B747 I didn't notice was about to land over my head.  ;D

[ashaman]

Uh no, I want to know if there's traffic in the pattern or on the runway before turning on final... don't want to step on anyone's toes, expecially if "anyone" is a B747 I didn't notice was about to land over my head.  ;D

Well, your traffic would be controlled by the tower and they should keep you to be squashed like a bug... I mean, supposedly... alright, this is FS ATC we're talking about, and my last landing tells a lot about them, but still, seen that after all you're not really risking your skin in this you could give them a chance. 8-)

[FridayChild]

But (and I address this question to all you "real" pilots out there; rottydaddy, Brett, Foz, anyone): is this realistic?
Supposing I want to perform a series of touch and go's at a controller airfield; do I just take off, ask for clearance for the first touch and go, and then stay in the pattern and repeat the manoeuvre ad libitum, considering myself eternally cleared unless told to go around, until I'm done and I decide to land or to fly away (which in FS would imply choosing "cancel landing intentions"?).

[pepper_airborne]

I dont think your eternaly cleared. I think they want oy to call all the legs, because you obviously have other traffic departing and landing, wich also need to exit and enter the circuit.

[Formula_1]

Hi

Are you not getting a cleared message on your downwind leg, after the first T&G?
I mean, once you do a tg and come around for your next, are you not getting anything from ATC?

The reason I am asking is because I always do. ATC acts as though I requested a series of T&G's. In the sim I don't have to state I am on downwind, like real life. I get a reply as if I had announced I was on downwind for my next tg, but it isn't a option to do this, it is automatic. If you are within the ATC's trigger window of a downwind you should hear ATC give you instructions. Does that make sense? You should be hearing ATC clear you and hold planes short, or tell you to go around, etc.
So since the sim acts like you have requested to do a series, instead of just one, you have the only options you state in your first post.
You have to cancel landing (end T&G session).
Then you will have to do,,,, as you again already know to make a full stop or whatever your plans are ater you end the T&G session.

Yes, there should be more options available. Full stop and transition should be there for sure. But, they very well might not be because it was easier to code by having a separate task for T&G. I am only guessing, but my logic is that after you request a TG, the sim sets up ATC for a endless loop for you to always be in the pattern for a T&G. Thus the trigger for the repeat clear for left TG (or whatever) you should hear everytime you are on downwind. This trigger seems to work even if you enter a right and then later a left, or vice versa. Although we don't have the option to request this change either, it still appears to work this way. Automatically acting as if we did request a change from right to left.

I am not at all sure I am correct, but I can think of no other reason that ATC works like it does while in T&G mode.

[FridayChild]

Are you not getting a cleared message on your downwind leg, after the first T&G?
I mean, once you do a tg and come around for your next, are you not getting anything from ATC?

Exactly. Hence my initial guess; maybe FS does not consider a touch and go "done" unless the speed, while rolling on the runway, drops below a certain value? Just like during a landing the FS ATC only says "vacate runway when able" when speed has fallen below a limit? So maybe I didn't decelerate enough before taking off again, so the tower thought I hadn't touched down yet?

[Formula_1]

So maybe I didn't decelerate enough before taking off again, so the tower thought I hadn't touched down yet?

Maybe, but I am not sure. I know I have slowed way down before, yet always get the repeat. But, I was probably not as slow as when the get off runway message plays. That might work, but it would be impossible with some planes/fields.
I don't have time to try it myself right now, but I will as soon as I can, if you haven't alrezdy found out what will happen by the time I get back.

[ashaman]

Fri, you're searching for absolute coherence to real life from FS ATC? :-?

Are you sure you feel well, friend mine? :-?

The only way to have real ATC (or as real as humanely possible) in FS (X-plane too) is to fly on-line, you know.

Think only that the ATC we all love to hate under FS9 has been moved as a block in X without trying to work out the kinks (after all X is the FS9 for those who like to play, not to simul-fly). This should tell you a lot about how seriously M$ takes the boast "as real as it gets". No?

It's not real. You don't have to ask the pilots. It's not even remotely similar to the real thing. But it's the only thing you have, unless you decide to fly on-line or to buy Radar Contact (which, to be clear, I'm not sure how much a step forward is, having never tried it).