Approach Hold - H or V Lock?

[Hussein Patwa]

Oops, sorry for that.  Yep it's my KLM 738 that I'm flying, and yes my speeds were well out.  Also I've realised my very steep descent rate is that I was activating the APR hold too late at about 8nm, thus it was bring me down very steeply, hence even flaring would not have got me down before I was going down the runway.

Yes I have it on NAV.  I'm on GPS at flight start, NAV for the cruise, GPS for ATC navigating me for the approach, and NAV for the landing.

Thanks for the B737 tut, I'll give it a look over and follow it as I fly.

Hussein.

[Nav]

Sorry, put the wrong link on - this is the 737 one:-

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/ ... 1111322151

[simonmd]

[quote]MSFS's autopilot won't rotate the plane prior to runway and therefore will end up hitting the pavement with too much rate of decent.

[elite marksman]

As I said. I like to land manually. Don't particularily like the idea of trusting my life to a damn computer, I'd rather have one than can think, observe, and react to the dynamic enviroment of the airport. Fly manually people! Your brain is the best computer ever invented.

[Nav]

Of course I agree 'in principle', elite. And learning to fly 'for real' you're very seldom allowed the luxury of using the autopilot at all!

But the snag on FS is that, lacking an instructor, people don't get the opportunity to develop a 'mind's eye' picture of what a proper landing approach looks and feels like. I've had lots of people respond to those tutorials of mine saying that, having taught themselves to land as best they could, they'd been coming in 'too low/too fast' for years!

The important thing to grasp, to me, is that an aeroplane on a proper approach goes down level, like an elevator; not nosedown, like an arrow! I think that, on FS, most beginners tend to point the nose down at the threshold (i.e. too FAR down) - which means that they get in the habit of coming in too fast and at too high a rate of descent.

So my recommendation for beginners is to set up a practice flight, and take it in stages. Don't hesitate to use the full ILS, and the visual flightpath, at first. Watch the instrument readings and get used to what the airport and runway SHOULD look like at various stages of the approach. Only turn off the autothrottle and autopilot late on, and practise doing the actual flare and landing manually.

When you have that taped, start turning off the autothrottle early and handling the power yourself. Move on to turning off the whole autopilot early. Finally, turn off the visual flightpath and start practising doing the whole thing manually, without the 'aids'.

[beaky]

Thanks.  Talking of published speeds, I need to work on that, I stioll come in too fast.  I'm at 190kts when ATC makes the last turn in for the approach (usually about 12nm out) and still at about 160kts within 3nm of the landing with full flaps.

Hussein.

It's tricky to figure out what speed to use without an approach plate (although not all of them specify a speed), but so far the ones I've seen indicate a speed on descent that just about matches the approach or pattern speed listed for the aircraft.  For example, The  ILS approach plate for  KBFI's runway 13R (available as part of the FS9 flight lessons) has numerous options: 70, 90, 100, 120, 140, and 160 knots. When in doubt, it seems best to go with whatever speed is normal for approach- somewhere close to max flaps-extended speed or gear-extended speed.
I also make sure I'm set up at least speed-wise when I'm at the ATC-assigned altitude and intercept the localizer, then I get the gear and flaps down right away.
 There may  be a descent-from-cruise speed listed for your plane, also- if you use that when ATC first orders you to descend, you'll have less trouble slowing  up for the approach.

[Hussein Patwa]

Hmm, I was thinking earlier today whilst taking a break from exam revision (I know, I know, it's crazy) about the various features in not only FS but many programs and indeed times in life, and those which we don't use when we could do to make things easier, and reading what was said here about the virtual flight path illustration just lends weight to that thought.  There's a perfectly clear picture given by FS of where to go and no many seemingly use it in the learning phases.  And I just think it's really interesting how much we might all be understanding out kit.

Food for thought?