Landing Thread (Now With Screenies)

[willg]

i've always played the microsoft fs's, but have never really mastered the art of landing. i consider myself a fairly skilled pilot, i can fly perfectly, maintain altitude and straight and level, can make turns properly, im fairly good at navigating, its just when it comes to landing im a bit nooby.

i tend to try and land by using the gps and nothing else, but my landings seem to be all over the place, an inconsistent rate of descent, and always off the centre line.

i land in one piece, but its just not satisfying enough, its not like a real airliner would land at all.

so could somebody please go over the best way to make a proper approach, i.e, how to line up with the run way and maintain a consistent descent and course without veering all over the place.

im not so bothered about an exact precision approach, i just wanna make a steady precise approach staying in line with the runway (this has been one of my biggest problems)  

[ChrisM]

Welcome to SimV

My advice, if the runway has one, use the ILS that will help you out lots.

[willg]

right, cud u explain ILS approaches for me please, it all seems a bit heavy in the game.

[beefhole]

THIS should get you up to speed on ILS.  Just scroll down a bit.  Welcome to the world of precision approaches

[MattNW]

First of all you need to go back to the beginning. Trying to land an airliner is much harder than the Cessna which is where you need to start.

There's a lesson in the sim for slow flight. Try flying that a few times. Don't worry so much about Rod. The idea is to study how it's done and then practice flying slow.

A good landing is the result of a good approach. During approach you are in an area of flight that is somewhat unusual. The airplane is barely flying and you are using the throttle to control how you descend and the pitch (nose up or down) to control your airspeed.

A good way to practice is to reduce power while quite high (3,000 to 5,000 ft) and add flaps until you have full flaps. Now reduce throttle a little more and watch the vertical speed indicator. Try to get a descent of about 500 ft/min and maintain an airspeed around 60 kts. This gives you plenty of altitude to play with. The idea is to just practice descending in the landing configuration. You won't be landing from this height.

When you can get that down pretty easily try adding a little throttle and watch how the vertical speed decreases. Now cut some throttle and see how it increases. This is how you balance your approach. When you get pretty good at this while at altitude you can try it on an approach to a runway.

First get lined up with the runway centerline and with full flaps reduce throttle until you have a vertical speed about 500 ft/min. Aim at the numbers and try to keep those in one place in the windshield. Just before you touch down (about 12-15 ft off the runway) cut all throttle and let the airplane settle down while trying to hold it a little off the ground (don't pull back too sharp but let it gently settle on to the ground).

Once you have mastered the Cessna then you will want to go to the Beech Baron-King Air and then on to larger and larger airplanes.

Little demo of what you can do with some practice.

Fully manual approach and landing.

[ChrisM]

Good advice there matt .  I have a question for you (or anyone else) You use the throttle to control pitch and yoke for speed on small planes, but isn't it the reverse for airliners, because their engines lag a bit??

[GA_Pilot]

It also helps to use the PAPI or VASI lights, whichever the runway uses. If you dont understand how to use these, I think there is a lesson on those. Also remember that the standard descent rate for general aviation aircraft is 500-700 fpm

[Nav]

ChrisM, it's the same for both.  On a jet you just have to allow a little more time for it to respond, you get used to it.

I've found that the two most important instruments in a descent are 'N1' (needs to be kept at about 50% in most airliners) and the rate of descent (which should be around 500 feet/minute).  If you keep an eye on those it stops any tendency to over-correct; you'll be able to see when things are moving in the right direction.

About the yoke, that should only be used as a temporary thing - it's best to adjust the trim as soon as you can, so she holds the right attitude 'hands off'.  I have the two top buttons on my joystick, right under my thumb, assigned to 'up' and 'down elevator trim, so there's no delay in re-trimming.

[Nexus]

[quote]Good advice there matt .

[willg]

okay thanks everyone, ive tried that, but my landings do seem a bit unprofesional still. my main problems are:

i can do a proper descent, but i cant stop the plane from descending. 2 or 3 miles from the airfield the planes at like 300 foot or somthing, which is rather shameful.

if i keep the speed up, ill end up well off the centre line (on the runway though, but its still not acceptable)

often, ill try to keep the runway in the centre of the screen, but its often at an angle, i.e, i can see the start of the runway in the centre line, but i often find that if i keep going ill be flying to one side of the runway, therefore im  forever try to get to a point where the aircraft's directly in line with the runway (but not the right position, i.e, the aircrafts flying to the left but at this point, if you drew a straight line from the runway, it wud hit the plane, but the plane aint actually properly lined up the runway if u see what i mean)

my other problem is that the aircraft seems to slip through the air, similar to a stall but not quite as quickly.
(i.e rapidly loosing altitude and airspeed with the horizon comning up quickly)

okay thanks for all your help
will

[n_richardson05]

it took me a little while but im not the best eather but most of the time land with out breaking aneything the bigest problem for me is keeping my airspeed up because i have a tendency to slow down too much just use the cesnas foe a while then try the king air and after a whil move up to the faster planes like the leer but use the 737 befor the 747 or 777 because there biger so its just a process of making your way up and i land my plane manualy from the final aproch  its more fun that way then after you get better add bad weather for fun  

[Nav]

willg, the first part of that (coming down too quickly) sounds as if you haven't got enough power on, and you're having to stick the nose down to maintain speed.

The second part is the logical 'second stage' - being so low, you have to pull the nose up to stay in the air, and by then the aeroplane is flying so slowly that it stays close to stalling.

The answer is not to be so concerned early on with lining up with the runway.  Gradually reduce the speed, lowering flaps as you go.  Glance up enough to stay roughly in line with the runway, but ALSO check the panel.  Try to balance the aeroplane out with the power at 50-55% and the rate of descent 500-600 feet per minute.  The speed should be at about 150 with full flap and the gear down.  if in doubt, use a touch MORE power than she needs, you can always bleed that off later.

Once you've got her balanced out at something like those figures, you'll find that it's quite simple to bank a little to get her to line up with the runway - and suddenly you have a lot more time!  Then just keep the runway steady, just above the panel.

I agree with n_richardson - it's a good idea to try the smaller, slower aircraft first till you've got some more experience.  Even do the two lessons on landing in 'Flying Lessons', they'll give you a much better idea of what the runway should look like in a proper controlled descent.

[willg]

right, thanks for your advice, especially nav.

this is what ive done:

ive set up the gps to guide me to the point where i should start my approach (added waypoints). once ive got to that point i'll take off the autopilot, add the flaps to about 3 or 4 notches (737), set the trim, maintain steady speed and rate of descent, and fly the aircraft a little to one side. when im nearering the runway with the aircraft all ready, (full flaps addeed, gear down, trim correct, auto brakes armed) ill just send the airplane a little to which ever direction i need so its aligned with the runway, once ive done that ill flare and touch down at around 120 knots, after that its easy enough to bring the aircraft to a halt.

i think my main problem was being too drastic in the approach, and focusing too much on the runway(by the way, when you say the runway has to be in the centre of the windscreen, do u mean the centre of my monitor, or in the middle of the left panel, or what, please cud someone clear this up, thanks). ive tried to focus on better descents, and mainting a more consistent speed and altitude. ive also done a few calculations before hand working out optimum speeds and suitable descent rates.

my landings arent perfect, but i think their getting better. (thanks to everyone for their advice ) ill keep posting on this thread saying how im doing, and hopefully  u guys can help me with any other little problems i have

p.s, is it worth setting my joystick to be less sensitive. as it is now, the way i fiddle with the joystick, the airplanes forever going left right and centre.

another point, could someone please just go over how best to use trim on landing

last point, please could someone send me a flight video of their perfect landing  :P . That'll be most helpful  

lol looks like im making yet another point, i just wondered if real pilots will land full manual, or they have loads of automatic aids to keep them lined up with the runway and maintaining a steady rate of descent.

maybe ill post some screenshots later, anyway thanks again everyone

will

[willg]

could someone please go over how exactly to stay on the glidepath, as ill obviously need to master this too.

maybe someone could go over how using the autopilot when on approach too please.

thanks again
will

[willg]

in fact, i just give up, im never ever gonna master the art of landing, every single time i just cant get lined up and am absolutely all over the place, i cant get the trim right, or the rate of descent, im uninstalling fs2004, landing is just 100% impossible for me. im not being defeatist, but ive tried really hard and practised and practised but every single time im just hideous, going down to fast, too far to one side, well off course.. i just give up