Help by ATC Message

[z1010]

I have read the answers for captjak a page back but I still don't understand.

Your advise please!

Flying from SCFA to SCSE (Chile) some 60 nm. before landing ATC says:

" Turn right 215 Expect vectors VOR-DME rw 11 approach. Circle to land rw. 29 "

What do they say? If they want me to land at rw. 11 (they are going to give the vectors), then why speaking of rw. 29 ?
If they want me to land on rw. 29: oke, but why give me vectors of rw. 11?

Some 20 nm. before landing ATC says:

"Cleared rw 11 approach".  This confused me, I had an other course. I decided to fly to rw. 29 and yes, I got a clearance for rw. 29.


After 6 years of flying this is the first time I heard this.  

Still learning, than. Can anyone explain the ATC-messages to me?

Thanks.

[BiggBaddWolf]

In all my FS flying I have never had a "circle to land" instruction, but I think it means you would be cleared for the rwy 11 approach, but you will circle to land on rwy 29, maybe because of a windshift or something, maybe someone else can explain the procedures more in depth than I can  ???

[beefhole]

Basically what Wolf said, you'll get the 11 approach but your landing runway will be 29.

[Nexus]

In most of the cases, circle-to-land is used because a straight in approach is not possible due to obstacle clearance.

You will use the runway 11 approach, but then deviate from the approach course (when you do that is marked on the charts) and land on the reciprocal runway instead.

[wji]

(again) Hal Stoen's site explains these  (this) procedure(s) better than others. Go to the Hal's
tutorial folder list and select "circle-to-land". It read in part:

"You are about to shoot one of the most demanding and difficult approaches that a pilot has in his/her bag of tricks.

The circle-to-land approach.

What is a circle-to-land approach?

Anytime you cannot land straight-in to the runway after going visual on an approach.

Why would you shoot a circle-to-land approach?

Well, at some airports that's the only choice that you have. The facility (VOR/VORTAC, LOC, ADF etc.) that serves the airport is not aligned with the runway. You just can't land straight-in without turning the aircraft. Or, the surface wind may be such that you have to land on a runway other than the one that has a valid instrument approach."

Anyone making a study of Hal's tutorials should have all their questions answered. Hope this helps.

bill

p.s. as a realworld instrument rated pilot and aircraft owner with over 3000hrs on VATsim I now fly exclusively using FS9's ATC and find no more anomalies than when flying the other two systems. We live in an imperfect world

[z1010]

Oke WJI, I have read the article en I even think I understand a little bit of it.

If I'm right (I summarize): I can take rw 11, if I can make it. If I can't make it I circle around for the opposite rw 29.

Now I got a clearing for rw. 29, but otherwise I got a clearing for rw. 11.

(Sounds strange, still: I may choose? I get vectors for rw. 11 but land on rw. 29 - okay, I don't understand ....)

Why not just direct me to rw. 29.


I'll check the situation bij daylight, but if it's impossible to land at rw. 11 because of a building or something like that - well, that's nonsens, isn't it? Than close rw.11.


I think about it (but for now I don't understand).

[wji]

For myself, I find it useful to think of a C2L (circle-to-land) procedure more as a VFR procedure than an IFR procedure. If one looks at an approach plate (IAP) with 'circling' minima included (some airports don't allow circling and are indicated by 'No Circling'), one sees that often, the C2L minima is higher than the airport's VFR minima (1000'). This has to tell the most jaded individual something.

It tells me, C2L is basically a VFR procudure flown under IFR rules (and, sometimes, IFR conditions).  Hope this clarifies this IFR procedure.

bill

[beaky]

Oke WJI, I have read the article en I even think I understand a little bit of it.

If I'm right (I summarize): I can take rw 11, if I can make it. If I can't make it I circle around for the opposite rw 29.

Now I got a clearing for rw. 29, but otherwise I got a clearing for rw. 11.

(Sounds strange, still: I may choose? I get vectors for rw. 11 but land on rw. 29 - okay, I don't understand ....)

Why not just direct me to rw. 29.


I'll check the situation bij daylight, but if it's impossible to land at rw. 11 because of a building or something like that - well, that's nonsens, isn't it? Than close rw.11.


I think about it (but for now I don't understand).

Why close rwy. 11 when you can still take off from it? I don't have much experience with IFR flight in sims or RL, but it seems that you'd intercept the localizer for 11 (because you're approaching the airport from the northwest?), then overfly the field and turn around to catch the ILS for 29. . "Back course" is what I think it's called (in terms of an instrument approach)... same VOR procedure you'd use (initially) if you missed your approach for 11 and had to go around. I assume you're making an IFR approach on this flight(?) It seems that this vector is related to where you are relative to the field, or maybe, as others have said here, it's a noise-abatement thing or somesuch.

[MattNW]

Nobody quote me because I'm hardly an expert on instrument flying but a Circle To Land basically means you will be given vectors for one runway but are advised to circle around to the other while maintaining visual contact with the runway.

In every instrument approach you reach a decision point where you either can see the runway and  continue with a  landing or you don't and have to declare a "missed approach".

In short the approach will let you use instruments to get down to where you can see the runway. After that you keep the runway in sight and circle around to the end where it's easiest/safest to land. Never had this happen to me either in the sim.

Going to have to fly the route you mentioned. Oh, could you give the wind direction and visibility of the flight where this happened?