LearJet Misses ILS Approaches

[bcstover]

When I make ILS approaches with the autopilot in the FS2004 default Lear Jet, the plane looks like it's doing everything just fine, but it hits the ground about 1/2 mile short of the runway!  I hate it when that happens!  Anybody else have the same problem?  Fixes?

[GeneticA]

I have the same problem in FS2002. I guess the autopilot do not watch the glide slope carefully  :o

I usually have to correct the pitch with the joystick.

[Flapsup]

Watch your approach speed carefully and keep it up or you will drop like a rock. I'm assuming that this happens after you come off of auto throttle. I come off auto throttle far enough out to stabilize my approach speed manualy then I can deal with coming off of Auto Pilot and flaring much more easily. Also make sure you are "arming spoilers" and not "deploying spoilers", It can be a disasterous mistake. Arming is usually "shift/" and deplying is just "/".

[GeneticA]

I switch off the autopilot and autothrottle just before I start my descent for approach, but I watch my speed carefully.

On short final I try to have a speed of 155-160 KIAS. I don't think this is slow for a 737. It may even be a bit high, I'm not sure.

Spoilers are not deployed as well. I have a button assigned on the joystick to arm the spoilers.

By the way, bcstover: Does this happen only with the Lear Jet? I'll check if I have this problem with others, as well.

[Flapsup]

if you are using the ILS why are you coming off autopilot before decent? Why arent you using  approach to establish you on the glide slope and ride it down to just off the runway.

[GeneticA]

if you are using the ILS why are you coming off autopilot before decent?

You got me wrong, or I couldn't explain well. I mean the Top of Descent point. Nothing to do with the ILS at that altitude  ;D.

When I'm getting closer to the TOD point (around 30-40 nm away from the airport, depends on the flight level I fly), I switch the autopilot off and start flying the rest of the route and the STAR (if I don't have the chart it is either the pattern entry or an ATC vectored approach)manually. After the last turn I make to turn to the runway heading, and get aligned with the rwy, I switch the autopilot on again, and press APP. Autothrottle remains off. It first seems to catch the glideslope but then falls short of the runway. It appears to be very slow to correct the errors.

[garymbuska]

It sounds to me that your speed is a factor.
What flap setting are you using. If you use full flaps you can go slower and still stay airborne But you have to watch for stalls. The other thing that could effect this would be your altimeter setting if this is not right it could cause problems.
You have to constatly adjust power in order to make the runway. If you are not adjusting power you will allmost always wind up short.
If you have a chance to get close enough to a real airport try watching the real thing and if you listen you will hear the engines as the pilot adjust power .
I am constantly switching between full power and flight idle as I approach the run way once over the thresh hold I hit F1 then glide in

[YodaNYC]

I have found that sometimes the autopilot cannot be trusted to fly the ILS correctly.  Often the plane makes a late descent causing too steep of a descent angle and a short landing (as you described above).  In my view, there is no substitute for flying the ILS manually.

Practice flying the ILS manually, making small adjustments to the glideslope once you are established and you should land comfortably just over the threshold every time.

[GeneticA]

What flap setting are you using. If you use full flaps you can go slower and still stay airborne But you have to watch for stalls. The other thing that could effect this would be your altimeter setting if this is not right it could cause problems.
You have to constatly adjust power in order to make the runway. If you are not adjusting power you will allmost always wind up short.

Flaps are at 30 (B737). Altimeter setting is correct. But I couldn't figure out how altimeter setting could affect this? I'm adjusting the power trying the match the 155-160 KIAS. I'll try to land with authrotlle on tonight and see if this is the problem.

If you have a chance to get close enough to a real airport try watching the real thing and if you listen you will hear the engines as the pilot adjust power .

I wish I had  :(. I sometimes pass by a small airport on the way home, but only small propeller aircraft flies there (its rare also).

Practice flying the ILS manually, making small adjustments to the glideslope once you are established and you should land comfortably just over the threshold every time.

Since ILS is notworking as I'd want, I'm doing manual ILS aprroaches. I'm trying to improve myself. But, if I set the visibility same as the minima for the approach, I cannot land the plane manually, I need more practice to follow the localizer.

[YodaNYC]

Try landing with the weather turned off.  Once you get the hang of the localizer and glideslope, turn the weather settings back on.  You'll be able to land in CAT III conditions in no time!

[GeneticA]

If I turn the weather off, then I find myself cheating  ::) by looking outside the window, then I have no problem in landing.

Anyway I need practice .

[garymbuska]

One other suggestion turn on the visual flight path using rectangles or hoops set the number of guides to max this will put a set of rectangles or hoops that you can see try to stay in the middle of these and you will make a perfect landing every time.
These can be found in the aircraft tab on the main menu.
I have found these to be a great tool in learning the correct approach path.
I would stay away from using auto throttle this is only going to make it harder for you.
PS
Rember auto pilot is not auto land. A lot of people think that by using the approach button that the plane will land itself. This is not true. As the button says APPROACH it will put you on the glide slope but will not autoland. FS2004 does not have that feature.
A true autoland system does everything from lowering flaps gear and adjusting power during descent it also goes into reverse thrust by its self. The pilot does not have to touch anything. The only thing autoland will not do is to taxi the aircraft to the gate.

[Nexus]

A true autoland system follows the slope and localizer and flares some 45ft above the runway....
Pilots still have to control gear, flaps and reverse thrust.
Speed is maintained thru the autothrust system and disengages after touchdown

Just wanted to point that out  :)

[atotti2000]

hold on a minute nexus! you mean i can get planes to pretty much land themselves on auto pilot?

[YodaNYC]

I have heard from real Airbus pilots that autoland can make for a real bumpy landing and increased braking.  Landing speed is typically greater using autoland than manual ILS.