Aircraft Design

[Go0se]

Which is the best free software for aircraft design ?!
Thanks.

[Merlin66]

There's G Max ( very steep learning curve!!!) which is free and the AD2000 (? a french program) don't know of any others.
If you want to design aircraft it would be worth the investment of $50 to get FSDS 2.24, it's relatively straightforward to use and does a great job. I use it all the time!!!

[FSEdge]

Which is the best free software for aircraft design ?!
Thanks.

Gmax hands down is your best bet...Yes, indeed FSDS will cost you around $50 to buy into...And then you will spend another $25 or so to upgrade when the next release comes along if history repeats it's self like from version 1 to 2.  The truth is, like it or not Microsoft seems to be pushing Gmax towards a new de Facto for FS development, with new tools in support of developing add-on scenery and effects through the use of Maxscripts utilities offered in the FS2004 SDK Gmax setup.

Gmax's tool set really isn't that hard to learn if you invest the time up front to work through the official tutorials and become familiar with the basics first and foremost. There's also more than enough web based information on 3Dmax that will cross over to Gmax if you really want to flex the power of Gmax not to mention a ton of great information already out there covering the ins and outs compiled by very knowledgeable Gmax users. Gmax too will open a whole other avenue if you ever decide you don't want to model for just FS anymore. In short save your money.

Disclaimer This is just my opinion as a known hardcore Gmax user

FSEdge

[Hagar]

If you're new to 3D modelling I would have to agree with FSEdge - up to a point. Gmax would be the way to go.

Being used to the conventional FS software & utilities for many years I find Gmax extremely difficult to figure out. You must bear in mind that this is a general 3D modelling application, not specifically intended for any purpose. It's not possible to create anything for the M$ sims without the special plug-ins, either included with FS2002 Pro or posted as official SDKs on the FS2004 (or CFS3) Insider site. Gmax is freeware & the little brother of 3DS Max which, as I understand it, is a very expensive professional application. Unless there's something they're not telling me I could never figure out
a) the advantage of using 3DS Max if all the tutes & plug-ins are based on Gmax. Surely this just makes the whole thing even more difficult.

b) If people complain about spending out $50 on FSDS2 why would they recommend an alternative costing something like $3,500 for 3DS Max?
http://estore.discreet.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?CID=82679&V1=613375&PN=1&SP=10023&xid=37482&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=82679

I would assume that those recommending 3DS Max for creating FS addons have an older version of the software, are using it illegally or use it for their work, in which case they're familiar with 3D modelling & already know how to use it.

[FSEdge]

Gmax is freeware & the little brother of 3DS Max which, as I understand it, is a very expensive professional application. Unless there's something they're not telling me I could never understand  
a) what advantage this has if all the tutes & plug-ins are based on Gmax. Surely this just makes the whole thing even more difficult.

Hager,
It sounds as though you are saying that all the tutorials and plug-ins for 3DMax are based on Gmax. Would this be correct?

Keep in mind its late here and I am tired so I could be reading it the wrong way.

[quote]b) If people complain about spending out

[Mathias]

a) the advantage of using 3DS Max if all the tutes & plug-ins are based on Gmax. Surely this just makes the whole thing even more difficult.

b) If people complain about spending out $50 on FSDS2 why would they recommend an alternative costing something like $3,500 for 3DS Max?
http://estore.discreet.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?CID=82679&V1=613375&PN=1&SP=10023&xid=37482&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=82679

I would assume that those recommending 3DS Max for creating FS addons have an older version of the software, are using it illegally or use it for their work, in which case they're familiar with 3D modelling & already know how to use it.

You can purchase student versions

[Hagar]

Hager,
It sounds as though you are saying that all the tutorials and plug-ins for 3DMax are based on Gmax. Would this be correct?

Keep in mind its late here and I am tired so I could be reading it the wrong way.

I was speaking in general terms. This was not what quite what I meant as I'm sure some 3DS Max tutes apply to Gmax.

[quote]Who's complaining? I don't recall ever telling anyone to run out and spend that kind of money. That would be a bit foolish now wouldn't it?

[Felix/FFDS]

Which is the best free software for aircraft design ?!
Thanks.

In answer to your specific question - gmax, because it is officially supported by Microsoft through its gamepack.

ANY modelling program, however, comes with a learning curve, so don't expect to create fantastically detailed models from day one if you don't already have modelling experience.

AD2002 LT is free, but has, in my opinion, a steeper learning curve, and does not take advantage of the latest gamepack enhancements.

I am specifically NOT including FSDS here because of your limitation of "free".

From time to time some graphics magazines put out full versions of full modelling programs (sucha as TrueSpace 3).  However, you are roughly "alone" in creating models for FS with these programs, since most flightsimmers build with gmax, or FSDS.

[Go0se]

Thanks to all  :)

[garymbuska]

I have never used any form of modeling program and gave GMAX a shot. I downloaded all of the tutes for it and tried to build the airplane in the tute. I did finally manage to do it but I must have restarted a dozen of times before it finally sank in what they wanted me to do. But I have to admit the house I made was a lot easier.
But I think GMAX is a great tool it just not the easiest to learn with out any other knowledge.
I doubt if I could design my own air craft with GMAX yet There is a lot to learn. I just need to devote some more time to it. If I could find some kind of book on what everything does it might help. But it also might confuse the issue even more.

[Felix/FFDS]

If I could find some kind of book on what everything does it might help. But it also might confuse the issue even more.

There are two excellent books - The Gmax Bible and the Gmax Handbook.

THe "bible" is basically a reference book with short examples (inlcudes a CD with the basic models for you to do the exercise).

The "handbook" is more game specific and is a colletcion of tutorials for different games.

[FSEdge]

I'm not trying to start an argument here. I don't deny that 3DS Max is a powerful tool (as is Gmax) but Go0se specified free software. In this case Gmax is the only practical option - depending on which sim this is for. If he has FS98 thru FS2000 it will be no use at all.

Hagar, I didn't take it that you were aiming for an argument on the subject at hand. Sorry if I made it seem this was your intent.

If indeed FS98 through FS2000 are the flight sims being used AD2000 LT would have been the choice at hand. It appears though that A.T.C. Publishing is closed. Game Over it claims. I wonder if Herve uploaded AD2000 to another location?

This is very creditable & much the same as I've tried to do myself for a long time now. Maybe I was one of those people who helped you in the past.  

I am sure at some point you were one of the few who helped me. For that I offer you a tremendous Thank you.  ;D

FSEdge

[pete]

Mathias, Did you create those gauges/cockpit objects?

Amazing!

The future of VC's!

[Hagar]

Hagar, I didn't take it that you were aiming for an argument on the subject at hand. Sorry if I made it seem this was your intent.

Again my comments weren't directed at you or anyone in particular. Sorry if there was any misunderstanding.

I was merely commenting that the average person finds Gmax extremely difficult to use. Gary later confirmed this. Exporting the project from Gmax to the sim might seem easy enough for the "old hands" but this is also difficult to grasp for many people. The fact that a different Gamepack is required depending on the sim you're creating for complicates things even further. All this takes time to learn & there's such a thing as too much information which can only confuse the issue. IMHO

You don't suddenly become as skilled as Mathias overnight & shouldn't expect to. I respect his opinions as I know how much time he put into that amazing CFS2/FS2002 He 111 in FSDS before converting over to Gmax. (Mat, you might forget now that I was involved in the original project, if only in a small way.) I imagine this involved virtually starting all over again. Learning how to adapt it for CFS3 was another step in the process which very few seem to have mastered even now.

If indeed FS98 through FS2000 are the flight sims being used AD2000 LT would have been the choice at hand. It appears though that A.T.C. Publishing is closed. Game Over it claims. I wonder if Herve uploaded AD2000 to another location?

I'm surprised that Pete didn't point out that the freeware version of AD2000 is posted right here. http://www.simviation.com/fsdesign_aircraft1.htm
I haven't tried it & understand the principles are entirely different to both Gmax & FSDS. Also, I'm told there is very little or no support for it. I'm not sure that AF99 is still available so this would now be the only option for creating FS98 & CFS1 models that I know of. Believe it or not, people still want to create aircraft for these sims - especially CFS1.

[Mathias]

Mathias, Did you create those gauges/cockpit objects?

Amazing!

The future of VC's!

Yes, that's my stuff.
Ever wondered how the IL-2 guys make their virtual cockpits?