Hello all and for those doing a Bf 109 pit

[109dreamer]

Hello everyone.  It has been about 4 or 5 years since I first found out about homebuilt cockpits.  I have been planning to build a Messerschmitt 109 cockpit for about the same time.  Now all I do is dream about it because I just do not know where to start construction.  I have 5 sheets of ply out on the porch that we used to board up for the hurricane just shouting out my name!  

Anyway, my main purpose of this post was to say hello and to see if anyone was doing an Me 109 pit.  Reason being is that I have had a hard time finding technical plans of one.  However, I remembered that I have 1:1 scale plans of the 109 and when I opened up a ww2 aircraft book that I have not touched in 4 years, out they fell.  They are very detailed and I will be using them to build mine when I start.  If ANYONE wants a copy I will be more than happy to fax or email them to you as long as you tell me if they will help or not.  ANd to send me pics of your pit asap.

well that is about it.  Hope you all are doing well and having a great time building and flying.  FOr me, I will just keep dreaming about my 109 until I finally say "heck with it here I go."  Only problem is that my wife will not allow me to have two pits in our home.  SO I have to choose between my 109, and my Apollo Capsule(Not full scale) which is another pit I have always dreamed of being in.  Not sure what I will do.

OK! so take care everyone!

[Shadowe]

email them to me i am not goin to do it but i can try to help u make adjust ments to them .... so it will be easier on u.... what other plans do u have?

[chuckcrc]

Hi 109
Dreaming is the first step in building a simpit.
It's good to hear from another WW2 simpit builder as there aren 't too many of us out there.
You asked if there was anyone building a Me109 pit.
The only site I know of is on the link I will post here.
[url][/http://www.edbert.net/109pit.htm]    

Now I think this simpit owner was thinking of giving the pit away as he was moving or something. Anyhow have a look at the following link to find the Forum thread where I read this.
[url][/http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=72330]

As far as starting to build you own well John Baymore has some great threads here and I will try and write something up for you as well. I posted a lot pics for building ww2 trim panels and throttle quadrant etc (P51B type)that you can check out.
cheers
chuck

[JBaymore]

109dreamer,

Hi and welcome to both SimV and the "Homebuild Forum".

I'd suggest the Nike approach to this recurrent dream of yours.......

Just Do It.

I think an important first step is taking a pad of paper and writing down all your thoughts about what you want out of all this expense and effort.

[JBaymore]

Shadowe,

So when are you going to try getting something started?  ;)

best,

...................john

[109dreamer]

Hey guys thanks for the friendly responses.  Chuckcrc I must be honest with ya, you are my hero brother.  Looking at your P51 has given me so many ideas.  Never even thought of making the trim wheel and other components out of wood.  

The 109 should not be that difficult.  It measures 2.9 feet wide and 4.4 feet high.  The link you gave me, the one where the guy built a 109 shocked me.  I have never came across anyone doing a 109 pit and his is outstanding.

Chuckcrc my one question for you, actually one of 10 million is this.  WHat did you cut your plywood with?  I have wondered what the best tool would be.  I have come to the conclusion that the best tool to use is the Rotozip.  I have a jigsaw but I do not think it will be as accurate.  Also, how did you get your fram so accurate?  Did you do any sanding?  The lines on your front and rear panels are extremly impressive.  The 109 is not perfectly square like I thought at first.  THere areslight curves in her frame  

THe hardest part for me I feel will be the canopy.  THe forward section of the canopy is rounded and I have been questioning what to constrct tis out of.  I am thinking 2x2 for the actual frame.  What did you use?

Thanks alot guys for the words of encouragement.  Whether I build an APollo capsule or my 109 I will keep you guys updated!

[Shadowe]

John,

You mean a simpit right, well this winter definatley... i am outside to much right now all i do inside is sleep and eat but i am prolly goin to build a P-51D .... all though this 109 is a great idea i had never thought of doin it


                                                      ~Shadowe

[109dreamer]

Shadowe.

I am having a hard time scanning these plans.  I sent them through my printer with no problem in order to get a newer clearer look.  Cannot scan them for some odd reason.

If you can interpret these plans that would be great.  I know how to for the most part however the 109 Panels have slight curves in them.  The plans give the measurements of each panel frame, however I can only understand the heighth and width.  Where the curves begin I am not sure how to read.  I am but a lowly history teacher.  Math was not my gig LOL

Anyway, let me know what you want me to do.l

[chuckcrc]

109Dreamer
thanks for those kind words. If you were going to use a similar construction technique like I used, I would suggest you study any books that cover wooden boat building first. To build a small wooden runabout or even a canoe will show you how to do a construction using rib and longeron building principles. This is what I did. When aircraft were made of wood this is how they were constructed using the same principles as wooden boat building.

However with my pit I made the "bulkheads" one piece, where as in boat building they are built up from a number of pieces. The boat building technique will make more efficient use of your wood, but is harder to do, as the joints must be very accurate.
I used 3 sheets of 2400mm x 1200mm plywood for the sim. I used a scale drawing to work out the cross sectional dimensions and then transferred these directly onto the plywood using a vertical mark on the wood as a datum line 90 deg to the base. I marked out the width of the base of the pit and then extended these two marks vertically and in parallel to the centre datum line previously marked. This gave me a rectangular box to work in. I marked out a kind of logarithmic scale on the centre datum line which would give me more measurement points on the side of the pit where the curve is greatest (at the top of the pit) with less measurements points towards the bottom of the pit where the curve is almost a straight line.
Using a right angle builders square I extended the measurement points from the centre datum to the other two vertical lines. I then used my scale drawing and marked out from the centre datum line along the new horizontal lines to the left and right and made a mark. Continue this process to the base and you then have a curve marked on your wood.

I cut this shape out with a Jigsaw and it was hard going to keep a steady line (wouldn;t it be nice to have a CNC cutting platform with laser!!). I used 18mm plywood so you would need a high quality jigsaw, I burnt my old unit out doing this simpit. This gave me my first template, which I sanded smooth and used to mark out all the others.
When I had all of them cut I aligned them all and then bolted them together. This allowed me to sand them down together uniformly.

Now after having done all of the above I'm not sure if I would build another simpit using the above technique because it made framing the canopy more difficult. Of course this is something you learn after doing it the "hard way" !

109dreamer is your pit going to be a fixed type or a bit multi-purpose like mine, with the front being removed to spin the monitor around at a desk etc.
The reason I ask this is because it would have an effect on the alternative method I would describe for pit building. If I were to build another pit, (not bloody likely says the wife! although it would get me out of the house !!) I would make up the wooden bulkheads as described above but they would only be from the bottom line of the canopy frame upwards. This would make a much easier template and formers to use when you are bending up the aluminum for the canopy framework. A Me109 canopy would be the easiest of the ww2 planes to do, as it is mostly straight lines. The biggest cost for the canopy was the 3mm Lexan Plexiglas. In hindsight I'm not sure if the canopy needs to be see through. You could use a 3mm plastic and paint it a light colour for effect-- not sure !

Anyhow hope this is of some help-- feel free to keep asking questions

[109dreamer]

Hey chuckcrc thank you for the reply.  I need to try and scan these plans I have because I am having a really difficult time interpreting them.  The cuves of the aft bulkhead and vital.  These plans give exact measurements, however I do not really understand how to read them.  I tried drawing it out on paper using a 1/5 scale version.  Still do not know where to begin the curviness of the bulkhead.  Any ideas?  You have a fax?

[109dreamer]

Forgot to answer your question Chuckcrc.  My pit will be completely fixed.  Using the plans of the 109 the measurements are as follows"

THe fusalage from the very front of the canopy touching the foreward bulkhead to the read "canopy bulkhead: is aprox 5.5 feet in length.

The width of the frame is aprox 2.10 feet.

Now, if you look at the 109 at an angle, you will notice that the canopy drops down a bit.  From the bottom of the cockpit to the square portion of the canopy is aprox 2.3 feet.

The height of the forward bulkhead where the front part of the canopy is aprx 3.9 feet not including the canopy itself.

The height of the next section which would be the famous armored plate right behind the pilots head it 4.6 feet including the canopy.

Dangit, I need to get this darn thing scanned so I can send to you and shodowe.

ANyway, the bulkheads, there are three in all in the cockpit, have ofcourse curves.  It is hard for me to know what arc each curve is and where to start.  but these plans tell you.  I just do not know how to figure it out.

I am going to keep trying to scan.

109

[109dreamer]

Ok got my scanner to work!  Shadoew send me your email address again.  CHuckcrc let me know if you want this.  COuld use all the help I can get.

109

[Andrew17]

Hello everybody!!!!!!!!!!! The more I explore the forums of "homebuilt cockpits", the more I ask myself what have I done till now!!!!!

Thanks everybody for the entusiahsm and a special thank for Chuckcrc for the precious technics illustrated; for years I thought I was alone with my ideas and sketches. I manged to design and build a rudder pedals assy in alluminium alloy, wwII style, nothing to do with a perfect reproduction of a particular warbird pedals, but similar to the Hurricane one. If someone is interested I will send a picture, the part list with required tools and all the dimensions.
While thinking about my cockpit I also made a fabric (mediterranean theatre like) pilot helmet. Again if someone interested, let me know, I can send the templates.  Next target is to reproduce it with leather, but I know that will be more difficult for the sewings.

Now I was designing a cockpit that would help me maximize the realism, but without drawings or scale references.....109, it'd would be very helpful if you can mail me a copy of your 1:1 drawings.

I was amazed by the spitfire: it has always been my best one. But the bubble canopy is something I have not been able to solve. Than I thought about the ME-109, more easy, as you said. And then I found this forum and decided to register and write.

Bye everybody!!!!!

Andrew.

[Andrew17]

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Hallo everybody! After some hard work I managed to get back. How are you doing?

I've got the pictures of my rudder pedals experimental prototype, how can I attach a couple here?

[Shortrnd]

Wow I'm glad I found this forum!

I also am building ......errrr I should say starting to build a bf 109 simpit.