The Network Battle

[Scorpiоn]

Or that's what it feels like.  I've always fought my PCs (or the PCs under my jurisdiction) to just somehow connect together, but alas, they always win.  This is a bit of writing to perhaps help you understand my position and knowledge (see: none) on networks, so if you're short on time, skip the next paragraph.

Way back a couple years ago, I had my dad's Dell Crapension T500 [Mhz] on 56K AOL.  The nightmare of all nightmares, I know.  When I finally got a job and built my own PC, I was initially going to keep it offline because of spyware, but it became frustrating switching computers between gaming and IMing.  By this time, my dad had caved in to getting DSL, so any networking I had to do became a tad bit more difficult.  What I tried to do at first, was connect my PC to the net via my dad's PC.  However, I quickly ran into several obstacles.  I bought a network card for my dads computer and I was going to use integrated LAN on my PC.  I quickly found out SBC doesn't like integrated LAN.  Network set-up in XP was over-simplified at times, whereas it would often give me no help in other areas.  I recently discovered LAN cables over 100 feet can pose problems in networks.  I ultimately gave up and used any manner of hub configuration that worked, and backed away.  Even with the hub set-up I have today, I cannot operate both PCs at one time, as XP reports an IP conflict.  Any attemp to alter the IPs will render the net inaccessable.  I recently bought a Dell (woe is me), but only because you can't build your own laptop.  I find myself in a similar position today.

This is what I have:
Phone Line
|
Router
|
Hub
| |
| Dads PC
My PC
|
My Laptop

Red spots are trouble areas.  As mentioned before, only one PC at a time may operate the hub, but I don't really care about that right now; I gave up on that a long time ago.  What I really want to get done is connect my PC to my laptop, not so much for the internet, but just to transfer files.  Again I've fought with the "easy" Windows XP network set-up, but to no avail.  Through the network wizard, I set XP on my PC to "connect to the internet through a hub."  On my laptop, I set XP to "connect to the internet through a other computer on the network"  However, this provides no results.  I then tried clicking "share this PCs internet connection to other PCs on the network", but I recieve a ICS IP error.  I don't know enough about networking to really problem solve IP addresses.  All I can really do is play around with numbers and Microsoft help files.  Why the long post?  Just to stress the fact that the word "networking" gives me chills.  I'd like to find an answer that doesn't require me to buy another hub, but that kind of seems like the only option.

PS: The only real positive note, is now my SBC connection will accept both integrated and PCI LAN.  Whoopee.

:(

[color=Black][size=10]

[congo]

First, a disclaimer, I suck at networking, so anyone with better or more accurate knowledge, PLEASE intervene!

Here is a website that solved a few of my woes in "plain english".

http://www.portforward.com/networking/dhcp.htm

There is a lot of info scattered around on this website, by using the various text embedded links I was able to pretty much sus the IP thing.

Read as much as you can about IP's and subnetting etc, you don't need to fully understand it all, but a basic idea will help get you thru.

After you read there a bit, I'll help you some more if you still need it.

The basic thing you need to access is your TCP/IP settings on all your PC's LAN cards. Either your Router sets up the IP's automatically, or you define static IP's for each, or some, of the devices.



This first screenshot is manual IP setting. DO NOT copy my ip and DNS settings, they won't work on your pc, get your own IP's and dns settings.

Note here my DNS settings......... These are supplied by your ISP, don't use mine. The gateway IP in my case, is my modem/router's IP address, which I assigned manually in my router's configuration.




This is the WINS setting on the advanced TCP/IP settings.... in netbios settings, where it says DEFAULT, it explains that if you have a static IP set (manually set IP) for your lan device, then enable netbios as in this pic, otherwise leave it as default if the ip is configured automatically.






This is auto IP setting by DHCP.






If you click "Configure" (left side), you'll get directly to the LAN card's settings. I found that by addressing the card in the (right side) pic, it can cause conflict, so I leave that setting as shown. I'm sure there is another way to do this, ie, set the devices IP in this section, but I am having success by doing it my way so far, I think that setting the IP in this screen is the most basic way to allocate the devices IP, but it conflicts with the other settings if you don't know what you are doing, (like me). So, leave it blank unless you get better advice.



Onboard LAN devices are no different from PCI ones. Any confusion probably stems from not being able to identify your components in windows. If you have both PCI and onboard lan devices present, make sure you are fully aware of which device you are making the settings for, and disable or remove any unused device.

Think of each PC on the network in terms of it's LAN device, or networking card, whether onboard, PCI card or wireless card (you don't have wireless, so count that out).

DHCP is the protocol that automatically assigns network IP's (addresses) to the various lan devices/routers etc.

If DHCP encounters any conflicts, ie. duplicate ip's or bad subnets or configuration incompatibilities, it will give you an error and the network will fail.

If you assign IP's for devices manually, and DHCP is enabled and tries to assign the same IP that is already in use by another device, then a failure occurs.

Your router settings probably default to DHCP assignments within a range of IP's. If you assign a static IP within that range, a failure occurs.

Typically, (at least on my router?), the router's DHCP assigned addresses will have a setting for the range of IP's that the router will hand out, (I'm assuming your router assigns IP's......if not, then windows will do it I imagine).

[Scorpiоn]

My advice is this, set everything for auto, and remove any IP's that you see set manually for any networking cards on all your PC's. Let DHCP assign addresses, as it will resolve the IP's and subnet's automatically.

That seems to be exactly the problem.  All PCs are set with the default, automatated, Windows settings, yet I'm still still the starting line.  Although now I do understand networking (or IP addresses) a bit better now.  Not that I know what to do with them though.

Expanding on an earlier thought.
[quote]From the Netgear Fast Ethernet Switch Installation Guide (Model FS605)

Troubleshooting
The Port number light is not lit for a connected device or stays on continuously
There

[congo]

The lan cable limit is 100 meters, not feet, in feet it's over 300' ! Not a problem unless of course it's the wrong kind of cable. (doubtful someone would run that much cable internally through your house and use the wrong cable!) I must use a crossover cable for my setup, you probably use straight-thru cables because you have a hub, (consult your manual).

One of the other possible problems your error lists is "If the Ethernet cable is connected to a NIC or other Ethernet adapter, make sure the card
or adapter is installed correctly and is working.
"

So do have a device icon present in the taskbar with a red X over it, or do you see a network adapter in device manager with a yellow "!" or other error flag? If so, that's a good thing because you at least know your PC sees the device (lan card). If you can get to the card's setting page, enable the icon in the taskbar so you can easily view it's current status. See that setting enabled in my pic above.

[Scorpiоn]

The only device with a x present is the floppy drive, but only because I didn't install the god foresaken thing; I hate 'em.

I just had a thought: perhaps my ISP has programmed my router's DHCP to give a certain number (see: 1) of IPs, so they're all being used up, well, by one computer! Is this possible to do, and if so, is there a way around it (altough it sounds like it'd be illegal).

[congo]

You can turn off your Floppy support in bios to free system resources reserved for it, since it is not installed.



Your ISP will do one of two things usually.

1. They will dynamically assign you an IP each time you connect through it's own DHCP system and IP range it has control of.

or

2. They have allocated you a static IP that doesn't ever change.

Both of these types of IP allocation are your "external address". Because your PC's are behind your router, connected to the internet through a LAN network, your internal IP's are invisible to the computers on the internet side of your gateway/router. The router figures out which packets incoming from the internet belong to which PC on the LAN requesting info from the net, through Network Address Translation or NAT.

Your ISP should have absolutely nothing to do with your "internal" IP setup. In fact, it can't detect that setup. It would be more likely "illegal" if the ISP was tampering with your internal IP's    but this is not the case.

Your network can exist without your Internet connection, however, you may need to have the connection present to access the web page configuration setup page for your router. I'm not sure about your hardware, but it seems that's the case with mine, otherwise I get offline errors trying to do so.



Diagnose your network, start with the cable you referred to, is it actually the correct cable? Have you ever been able to network over that cable using your current hardware setup as you described above? In other words...... is it a "straight thru" or a "crossover" cable, and is that cable correct for your setup? If it is not correct, the network simply cannot become established.

And, to repeat myself again,
Do you see an icon for your LAN card in the taskbar near the clock? If not set the icon to show as my picture at the top shows.

This is so we know if your LAN card on your PC is actually enabled. You may know the answer, but if I don't know this basic truth, I can't help you.

Once you establish that the network device is enabled and the driver is installed, (and I strongly suggest you use the onboard one, removing any PCI lan cards you have installed), you can check to see if an IP has been allocated as in my last pic above. If the field is empty, fine, if it shows an IP address there, remove it as my setting shows. Do this for each PC you are trying to network because you have to be sure there are no conflicts.

Once you have checked these basic items we can move on.

[Scorpiоn]

That's a relief.  For some reason I remember some ISPs allowing you a certain number of connections, like TVs and cable, so the thought crossed my mind for PCs and internet.  Anywho...

Interesting note about cables...  I checked the little lettering on each cable and this is what I found:

• Router - hub: CAT5
• Hub - My PC: CAT6
• Hub - Dad'd PC: CAT6

Don't know if it's significant though.


As far as my network goes, the only time I get the Xed LAN icons is when I try to do something involving more than one computer.  I can browse over the internet any any single computer on any single connection just fine, but if I try to turn on two, the whole thing gets an IP conflict or it reports a disconnected cable.  Under nornal circumstances though (by itself) no computer has Xed LAN icons.

[congo]

The lettering is only the cable (wiring) standard, or certification.

The cable may have transparent end connectors. If it does you can visually check if the wiring in the connectors are the same or not. Same ends means straight thru cable, in a crossover cable the connectors have 2 wires crossed over to the other side on one end.
This is visually apparent by the color coding of the wires, hence the clear plastic connectors to aid in verification.

No matter about the cable anyway, because your connecting each PC, so it must be right.

You need to go to your router setup and check what IP is assigned to the router, and what IP range is allocated in it's DHCP server settings, if it's running in dhcp server mode.



The following is an example of correct static IP's set to work properly in a DHCP environment, along with an online tool to help us.

Here is an IP and subnet calculator:

http://jodies.de/ipcalc?host=0&mask1=0&mask2=





and here is my current setup using that tool...............

Note that I had an incorrect subnet mask specified in the dialogue box, and the caculator auto corrected it below.

From the above calculator we can derive some useful info if we wish to manually set IP's and subnet masks.

The subnet mask is 255.255.255.0 (this subnet allows 254 possible ip's to be allocated from 192.168.88.1 to 192.168.88.254)

The host address I chose (192.168.88.85) for this exercise is in a "class C" subnet, used for up to 254 connections, home use category.

The network address is 192.168.88.0 (first address in subnet)

The Broadcast address is 192.168.88.255 (the last address in the subnet)





Below are my router's LAN settings,

DHCP server is enabled

Client IP start address: 192.168.88.51

[eno]

It seems to me that you're overcomplicating your setup. Your router should be able to handle everything. I would suggest getting rid of the hub and connecting everything through the router, thatway you'll be reducing the IP count by at least one.

1. connect 1 comp to the router and make sure its connecting to the internet. Check in that computers settings for it's name on the network and the workgroup name in network settings.

2. Remove all network settings from the other computers and restart them.

3. Connect a second comp to the network and run the XP network setup wizard (it seems over simple but it saves a hell of a lot of heartache and it works.) set up the connection manually. Make sure that the Workgroup name is the same and that the computers name on the network is different from the first. Once run, restart and check that both computers can connect.

4. Repeat step 3 for the last comp.

If this is done then there shouldn't be any IP conflicts.

The essence of this is that the Router is seen as the gateway computer on the network ..... the other 3 connect through that ... the hub does exactly the same job as the router and could be used to connect externally in an emergency. Don't worry about the external IP ..... that's designated by your ISP and will be the same for all 3 computers. The router should automatically give an internal IP to each comp on the network provided that they all have the same workgroup name and a different computer name. The only need for the hub would be if you were running more computers than ports on the router, then the hub would essencially would form another network. Then each network would connect though the network formed through the router with a different workgroup.

Check this site out http://www.computer-networking-tools.com/index.html

[Scorpiоn]

Heh...  Heh...  Well this is embarassing.  I want to slap myself.  Two times.

It seems I've been calling my DSL modem a router.  The two things look the same, so I often call them the same thing.  Whoopsie!  (I don't even own a router)

[Scorpiоn]

I'm reaching the ends of my patience with this blasted network. Once again I'm abondoning what I'm trying, and am just looking to do anything that'll slightly do.

My PC always seems to have anomalies, although I find out why much later. (ex: Java has problems with AMD, which I have)

Basically, is there any way I can connect my PC and laptop to just transfer some bleedin' music and wallpapers?  Even if it's done with a USB cable, I'd be happy.