Hey ho - back to Old Faithful..........AGAIN

[RollerBall]

Anyone still following this painful process?  :)

Current state of play. I'm typing this on one of my -ahem - other PCs (Dell Dimension PIV 2.5GHz, 256MB RAM).

With the latest nVidia chipset and graphics drivers, got FS2004 running on my main PC - for a while. However, I changed my FS settings, system crashed and when I restarted all aircraft appeared to have the default Cessna sound.

Soooooo.....

Decided that in order to give it a fair crack of the whip, I'd install a whole fresh system including Windows XP. Not too much of a problem as I'm trying to get FS off my main hard drive which is very full because of all the graphics and Internet work I'm doing.

I have a 40GB Seagate as slave and I'm pulling my main HD and plugging another 40GB Fujitsu in as master which is dedicated to FS2004. It's that one I'm now reinstalling on.  Already with all the previous crashes, hangs etc Windows is kindly biting lumps out of the system I originally put on and 'recovering' them for me (see earlier posting) so I don't mind doing the reinstall - if it's successful.

At present I've installed XP Home on it and I'm now putting all the updates on, currently SP2, before installing the latest nForce chipset drivers and the graphic driver.

Obviously, even when I've done that I still won't know whether things will work until I've installed FS2004 as well so I've a way to go yet.

You can imagine, Mrs Rollerball is delighted with all this. She's seen even less of me for the last week than she usually does - and that's saying something. Wonder if nVidia will contribute to my divorce settlement as they will be largely responsible  ::)

[Fozzer]

Hi Roger, Auto, and Congo...!

One of my lads popped in today and I showed him this thread including our benchmarks...
"Have you got a shoot-em-up that you can run in a window", he said...
So...
We ran my Doom 3 in one window and the Riva Tuna* Tuner speed graph in a separate window...
Lo and behold, as soon as the "3D" game kicked-in, the core speed shot up to 525 Mhz.... ...!
Shut down the 3D game...running in Desktop 2D, the speed dropped back to 300 Mhz... ...!

So all seems OK. The 3D speed is hidden from view when running a game using 3D... ...!

It's just strange that the frame rates seem on the low side when testing, using 3D Mark '01... ...!

The only thing which I am lothe to install is my motherboard BIOS update....for obvious reasons... ...!
My Gigabyte Motherboard: GA7-VT6- 600L.  The latest BIOS version is 9, my current version is 6... ...!
The up-date must be performed one version at a time...apparantly...!
Whether this will improve anything, I don't know... ...!
Otherwise it seems that everything runs OK...

Cheers all...!

Paul...in the 3rd dimension, @525 Mhz... ...!

* ...Typo... ...!

[congo]

[quote]Crikey congo - how'dya get your score in 3DMark2001

[congo]

Well Done Fozzer!

[congo]

The up-date must be performed one version at a time...apparantly...!
Whether this will improve anything, I don't know... ...!
Otherwise it seems that everything runs OK...

The one at a time update thing sounds strange Fozzer, considering that the complete BIOS file is entirely overwritten and not just "added" to bit by bit, unless it's a technology I'm not aware of.... quite possible.

It involves a certain risk to update the bios, so go straight to the latest file if you do update and forget bad advice unless it's actually stressed by the manufacturer, even then I would question that method.

Usually there is a bios descriptor at the download site which states the relative issues and fixes that a bios file update addresses. I would look to see if there have been any video related bios updates, offhand I can't remember seeing such a thing ever.

[congo]

There is a matter of PC architecture that needs to be addressed here.

On page 1 of this thread I posted 2 benchmarks, the former was on an nForce2 chipset using a slightly o/c'd 2800+ cpu with an nVidia "total junk" FX5900XT 128mb 8x AGP video card.

The latter mark was made using an Athlon 64 3500+ cpu on nForce 4 chipset with an nVidia 6600GT 128mb PCIe video card.

The systems both ran the same exact RAM, 1024 mb of PC3500 DDR, though the ram was underclocked on the older (first) system.

Both systems used the ram in dual channel mode, but the latter one is more efficient at dual channel from my understanding.

In light of this information, those really crap FX5900XT's are looking pretty ok for a cheap card heh?

The PC's architecture has an influence on the results, that's why I'm always raving on about getting the correct chipset on your mainboard, despite the brand name of the manufacturer.

The video card maker also influences performance by their adherence to, or deviation from the reference design by nVidia.

Fozzer I googled this:

[Fozzer]

...sorry Congo...Typo... ...!

Gigabyte.
GA-7VT600L. K7 Triton. 400FSB. 400DDR. 8X AGP.
Socket A. (AMD Athlon XP 2600 MMX).
Latest VIA 4-in-1 chipset drivers.

Quite a nice board... ...!

I have nightmares re: BIOS updates. If anything goes pear-shaped during the installation, the motherboard is totalled.....(BIOS chip data corrupted)......!

Cheers Mate...!

Paul.

[congo]

I wouldn't sweat it too much, if it dies, there's always a nice nForce2 board on sale somewhere!

ROTFL

[RollerBall]

Thanks for all that congo. Very interesting and informative. Unfortunately you were too late with the SP2 advice as I'd already been-and-gone-and-done-it but as it happens fate took a hand anyway. Talk about having a laugh at my expense.

I was going fine setting up the 40GB drive. Got all the drivers installed and decided to DL and run 2001SE and Mark03.

What an eye-opener. The 2001 BM for the 6600GT 'out of the box' on this drive before clearing and doing a fesh install was 11158. Afterwards with just XP, fresh drivers, AVG ant-virus and Spybot installed it increased to 13681. Very useful. Even higher than yours Paul!

But then....wait for it......I was connected to SimV and doing what I am now, when the screen went black and the drive crashed.

Nothing to do with the graphics. The drive was one I'd recovered after selling a client a new replacement. OK it had some bad sectors and the reason for the problems he was having was the drive failing to register. I've got another old Fujitsu of my own that is the same. Anyway, although I thought this one was now OK obviously it wasn't.

So I've now gone back to my original, main HD. I've deinstalled and driver-cleaned the chipset and graphics drivers and I'm surprised to see that after doing that I'm now getting a 2001SE BM of 13643 on that as well.

So I decide to give FS2004 a try.

All starts OK first time. Then I go into spot mode - and it hangs. Hard reboot etc etc

I change a couple of settings - also disable Fast Writes in BIOS it runs but it's obviously shaky. Hit alt to change aircraft and it hangs the system again.

I've really just about had enough now to be honest. I still think this is a crap card and it's pretty obvious that nVidia do still have some major driver problems. When I put the 9800Pro in it ran fine straight away but unfortunately it had a few bad pixels, which is why it had to be RMAd. Certainly didn't have any of this kind of nonsense just trying to get a bl**dy graphics card to do its basic function without crashing.

I'm afraid that I'll NEVER touch anything nVidia again after this. Life is just too short - and this is supposed to be a fun hobby, not a bl**dy toture chamber.

Just a matter now of deciding what to do with the card as I just can't make it work and don't have any more time to spend on it. In the meantime I guess I'll be back to my GeForce 3 Ti yet again.

[Fozzer]

Afterwards with just XP, fresh drivers, AVG ant-virus and Spybot installed it increased to 13681. Very useful. Even higher than yours Paul!

But then....wait for it......I was connected to SimV and doing what I am now, when the screen went black and the drive crashed.

Nah-Na-Na-Nah-Nah...!
...serves you right for boasting.........!!

Just a matter now of deciding what to do with the card as I just can't make it work and don't have any more time to spend on it. In the meantime I guess I'll be back to my GeForce 3 Ti yet again.

The Missus will be delighted, Roger......!
Time to cancel the divorce and have a cuddle instead......!
LOL...!

Cheers all...!

Paul.......!

[congo]

Just bagging nVidia isn't very productive, it has nothing to do with anything.

nVidia have always had fantastic driver support for their GPU's unlike ATI who have only recently got their act together a bit, so you are getting your history confused there.

[4_Series_Scania]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before, but, if my 2D and 3D core speeds don't match exactly, my card and benchmarks such as 3D Mark 2001 run very much slower, I wonder Paul, have you tried this?

As an example, if your GPU's core is 350mhz, make sure both 2D and Performance 3D is the same speed.
Clicking on the arrow in the "Settings" window will bring up 2D or 3D speeds.

You will need Nvidia "Coolbits"  to modify the clock frequency settings from the display properties.

Hope this helps.  :)

[Fozzer]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before, but, if my 2D and 3D core speeds don't match exactly, my card and benchmarks such as 3D Mark 2001 run very much slower, I wonder Paul, have you tried this?

As an example, if your GPU's core is 350mhz, make sure both 2D and Performance 3D is the same speed.
Clicking on the arrow in the "Settings" window will bring up 2D or 3D speeds.

You will need Nvidia "Coolbits"  to modify the clock frequency settings from the display properties.

Hope this helps.  :)

Hi Paul...!

My core clock speed, (default), on the BFG 6600 GT OC, is 525 Mhz.

The Performance 3D clock speed is 525 Mhz.
The Standard 2D clock speed is 300 Mhz...and firmly refuses to go any higher, resulting in a warning... ...!

As has been mentioned before, under idle 2D conditions, the card defaults/prefers to run at 300 Mhz...(to run cooler?)......!

...anyways...
Running under 3D conditions, (Doom 3, etc), it kicks in and runs quite happily at 525 Mhz......!

Cheers Paul.

The other Paul... ...!

P,S.  I've got a funny feeling that the old 3D Mark '01 doesn't really test the card in 3D mode....?
Maybe only 3D Mark '05 does that successfully with the latest cards, and Direct X 9c...?

[RollerBall]

A final footnote to all this. I was so pi**ed off with this I went off and bought another hard drive locally and created a completely new, fresh install consisting just of XP Home (with congo's SP2), AVG anti-virus, Spybot and FS9.

I started with my 'out of box' nForce 2 chipset drivers and the 'out of box' 6600GT drivers.

Had the same failure which the XP error message kindly described as a device driver error.

I then tried every combination of the original nForce2 drivers, the updated nForce sound driver only, the full updated (version 5) nForce drivers and various official and unofficial nVidia graphics drivers.

All resulted in the same failure.

When I started this new drive up this morning (bearing in mind it was brand new with a fresh full install) there was a boot-up error informing me that system cfg was damaged and Windows could not start. Thank God this was not my main hard drive which has all my personal and business stuff on it as well.

I've reinstalled my GeForce 3 Ti 200 and tried to go back to my original hard drive, which bear in mind was exposed to the 6600GT in the beginning.

I'm now also getting similar FS9 crashes on that even with my original nForce 2 chipset drivers and nVidia graphics drivers that used to work. Plus I now have a whole bunch of 'recovered' file fragments on my C: drive.

So at the end of this not only do I not have a working copy of FS2004 (hence no screenie contest etc this month) but I also feel that my main hard drive is under serious threat. In due course I'll use the new drive I bought as the basis of yet another full system install and data transfer from the threatened drive but I can't do that until I know what's happening on the graphics card front. I just hope my exisiting drive holds up, but unless I make a temporary FS9 install on the spare drive, which I don't now really have the time to do, flight simming is definitely out for me for the time being.

So I'm afraid I do blame this card. I've already raised an RMA request with the supplier and I'm waiting for a response. I don't know whether it's just faulty (although I doubt it as it seems to be fine in 2D mode and when running BM programs) but for me all the evidence points to a serious driver conflict and for that I totally blame nVidia. They more or less acknowledge that there's a problem because when you DL driver updates from their website they mention that they 'overcome various problems in games'. And there are dozens of postings on the hardware forums from guys having the same problems as me.

BTW I've put in dozens and dozens of different cards into my own and clients' machines over several years. I have to say that I've favoured ATI and I've NEVER had a problem (edit - I had a faulty Rage Pro once I recall) up until I had the faulty 9800Pro that started this saga. And at least when that card went wrong it didn't try to take out my whole bl**dy system.

[4_Series_Scania]

[quote]

Hi Paul...!

My core clock speed, (default), on the BFG 6600 GT OC, is 525 Mhz.

The Performance 3D clock speed is 525 Mhz.
The Standard 2D clock speed is 300 Mhz...and firmly refuses to go any higher, resulting in a warning... ...!

As has been mentioned before, under idle 2D conditions, the card defaults/prefers to run at 300 Mhz...(to run cooler?)......!

...anyways...
Running under 3D conditions, (Doom 3, etc), it kicks in and runs quite happily at 525 Mhz......!

Cheers Paul.

The other Paul... ...!

P,S.