Air to Air Combat in the FW190

[Smoke2much]

Is bloody hard work.  I keep getting wasted by swarms of P-47D's.  My major problem is that my pilot is a complete wuss when it comes to G-Forces.  He blacks out flying straight and level at 170MPH!

Whilst I am busy wasting all of my ammunition shooting down one of the little sods the rest of them are blasting my noble compatriots from the sky.  After 3 minutes of intense action I look back to discover 5 bandits on my six and none of the much vaunted Luftwaffe in sight!

It seems that in CFS3 the P-47D can out turn and out fly the FW190 and in addition they seem to have some sort of laser guidance package.

In response to this I armed up my P-47D and selected 3 rookie FW190 enemies in quick combat.  My thinking was that this would restore my faith in my abilities by giving me some quick and easy kills.  Not so, the evil little Germans flipped round onto my tail and blasted me from the sky in short order.  It seems that my P-47D goes 60MPH slower than an FW190 and turns using the British rail network.

Back to the drawing board...

[Felix/FFDS]

 You mean to tell me you aren't using the 1% air files?  

Sorry - I just HAD to do it..

Don't worry, in Aces High I get wasted by

Go figure, my best success is in a Spit 1 - against P47s, Laffies, even a Tiffie!

[Smoke2much]

I have tried the 1% airfiles.  The fact that I'm still (relatively) sane suggests that that I have a strong mental constitution.  My first flight in a spitfire resulted in me flipping over on the runway, my apparent mistake was to test the engine with full throttle with the brakes on.  I was under the mistaken belief that this should be done to see if the engine was to cut out when reducing power.

My second flight ended with me stalling one wing on take off and getting up close and personal with the ground with alarming suddenness (a new word!).

On my third flight I managed to take off and perfom a reasonably accurate circuit, my landing is best left to your imagination.  It would have been more impressive with the effects setting at 5 but even at 2 the flames were formidable.

At this point I returned to the default airfiles to continue in my self imposed quest to fool myself into thinking that I can fly.

Will

[Woodlouse2002]

[quote]I have tried the 1% airfiles.

[Felix/FFDS]

Obviously, then, the 1% airfiles aren't accurate, because otherwise, we, who are the pinnacle of online fighter pilots, would be flying perfectly.  The fault, then, is in the airfile, not the pilot.


(and I even managed to type all that whilst keeping a straight face)

[AvHistory]

To run the engine up on the Spit you need to advance the throttle smoothly & slowly as the tail can come up.

[Felix/FFDS]

[quote]Your results will not vary

[AvHistory]

[quote]

So, I take it you are of the opinion that the

[Mathias]

Flying the FW-190A3
===================================
This is a boom and zoom aircraft. It should out climb and out roll most allied aircraft. If you get a Spitfire on your tail your only chance is to do a "flick maneuver".

How?: Say you're in a turn to the left with him on your tail. Pull into a high g tight turn. When you see the Spitfire pulling lead to take the shot. Ease the stick forward about halfway to neutral and slam it over to the right as far as it will go. At the same add about half right rudder. You will roll through level and continue rolling to the inverted.

When you are almost inverted, use full left aileron and full left rudder to stop the roll and pull the stick all the way back. So at this point you just completing a Split-S. Also, now would be a good time to over-boost the engine by injecting the methanol and increasing the rpm to 2700. Most Spitfires cannot follow you through this maneuver since their ailerons ability to roll the aircraft is greatly reduced at high AoA's.

Practice this maneuver until you can do it in your sleep if you want to live.

Landings. The 190 is very hard to slow down even with full flaps and gear down. Follow the check list and don't rush it. DO NOT do a wheels landing or you will find yourself doing a giant bounce followed by a crash. You want a near full stall landing. In fact, if the tail wheel hits first, you are more right then wrong.

BEAR

Well Bear, that is when you have a detrimmed Farnborough FW190 with a derated engine, a well maintained example would be much more forgiving and manouvreable in all conditions

[james007]

Will.F what Bear suggested I beleive is you best manouravre against a Spit on your six.

The most important thing to do as a fighter pilot is be alert and be in a situation awareness alert mode all the time.

Now your planes capabitities by knowing it strengths and weakness against a potential enemy.

The Fw190 was the best Axis Fighter plane in World war two. Their were other Axis planes that where perhaps better but for their number and impact in World war two none equal the Fw190 period.

The Ki84 and the the Ki100 plus the George where better Fighters as a whole but they came to late and in too small numbers to the significance the Fw190 had on the war.

In a contest between a Fw190 vs Spitfire you always have to take into account which Spitfire you are talking about.

If you are encountering a early Spifire, lets say a Spitfire I to VII you have the better Fighter in the Fw190. Once the Spitfire got improve engines on the Spitfire VIII to XIV your chances decrease considerably.

The Spitfire was simply the best Fighter in the Ally camp. The beauty of the Spitfire was its design flexability that allowed it to be improve throughout the whole war.

Its only real short comming was its short range and its inability to take serious punishment.

I now some will say the Fw190D was a serious opponent and a real rival capable to challenge the Spitfire for air superiority over Europe.

What People do not realize is that the Fw190D was produce in small number and its effect on the European Theater of war was negligable.

Yes the P51 is consider by some to be the best fighter in the Europear Theater. To certain extend it was the best Fighter in Europe.

I too consider it the best fighter in Europe because its performance war superior to the both the Bf109 and the Fw190 period. What makes the P51 the champion of the Western Europe skys was its range and the aggresiveness of the average American pilot.

What I meant by claiming that the Spitfire was the best fighter is solely made on performance alone. If the Spitfire would have had the range of the P51 it would have won the skies of Western Europe as well.

If you are flying the Fw190 the first thing you need alert for for your Situation Awareness. Know your altitude, heading and possible enemy encounter points.
Know your planes capabilities and your possible enemy capabilities as well.

Always have a manourable to counter for whatever possible situation you may encounter in combat.

Practice and practice as much as possible. Your trump card is your ability to roll. The Fw190 roll better than any enemy plane they would encounter in a ingagement.

The Fw190 could also absorb cosiderable damage for it size. It had a tremendous punishing power for a small plane and it was hard to hit bacause if its small frame.

Its performance unlike popular thinking was not that great abouve 20,000Ft. Its ability to dive while pretty good was not as good as the P51 and the P47.
Its ability to climb was only better than the P47 late in the war. The turning radius was mediocre by most account. It also had a unpredictable stall spin charateristic that made at times dangerouse. It had a  engine that had a rough feel to it according to some Americam test pilots.

While it was formidable opponent to the bitter end of the war, Its superiority over the enemy decreased as the Allies improve their planes at higher pace than the German could keep up.

Good luck and Good Hunting

James007

[Mathias]

James, most popular FW190 quotes are based on allied tests of captured birds.
The allied had several issues to get the crates airborne, avgas, no knowledge and tools to trim the static trimtabs, no good idea about engine limits and such.
The famous  Farnborough A-3 is a prime example, the Brits effectively killed the engine within the first run.
It was rated at 1.32 ata by that time, the Brits thought it was a good idea to run it at 1.35.
Vicous stall behaviour, stiffening ailerons and such are primary caused by errorneously adjusted static trimtabs (which where tricky to maintaine, special tools where needed) so the accounts don't give a lot away about a well maintained FW190.
Fact is the FW190 was an excellent diver.
Infact, the plane usually dived away from allied planes as none of them could follow it.

[Smoke2much]

I have tor report that my quick combat tests in the 1% FW190 A5 ended in total slaughter of 2 of the opposing P47's, during which time the 3rd one ripped my starboard wing off causing a quite spectacular crash.  Oh well...

[james007]

I have read in many reports by pilots of the era that the Fw190 could not out dive a P51 and especialy not the P47.

If you think about it, its rather irrational to think that a Fw190 would be able to out dive a P47.

As for the Fw190 been able to shoot down several P47 through CFS3 simulation, That because the P47 was not build for Dogfighting.

Its best performance was abouve 15,000fts. In its sphere of Maximum performance it would reap the fW190 appart.

Its was proven times and time again over the longivaty of the war.

Just read the war reports of the 8th Airforce and you will see what I mean.

The same thing can be said about the Zero that was tested by our Aiforce personal in 1942. The test pilot was not as familiar with the plane as a Japanese pilots were

[Woodlouse2002]

The Fw190 and the Bf 109 should have been replace by 1944. They like the Zero and Ki43 where obsolete by 1944. The reason they kept upgrading them is that the German did not have the resources to make a whole new generation of fighters in the middle of just a large war.

They shouldn't have been replaced and they wern't obsolete. Both the Fw190 and Bf109 were fantastic aircraft and more than capable of giving most allied aircraft a run for their money. The only reason this isn't shown in history is because by the time the aircraft were reaching their peaks the Luftwaffe was running out of experianced pilots and aircraft.

[Mathias]

kill-loss ratios from 1944 upwards tell nothing about aircraft performance as the Luftwaffe had hardly trained pilots by that time, the majority where kids with wings on the shoulder after 3 weeks of basic training and a handfull takeoffs and landings.
When the US escort fighters arrived over Europe the Luftwaffe was allready just a shadow of itself.
As for the Spit v. FW190A, yes the FW190A was superior initially with a kill-loss ratio of 1:4 versus the Spit V, and later equally matched to the Spit IX, the MkXIV was superior to the FW190A, but the Spit XIV apparently didn't serve in large numbers just like the next build of the FW190 the D.EDIT: Gee Woodlouse, same time posters