Best P51 Performance?

[codered]

I am looking to find out what is the best way to fly the P51?  When I fly it, it seems very unrealistic.  When pulling tight turns I stall the aircraft.  I realize that when making a tight turn you bleed off a lot of speed, but the turn could be at 200mph and I will stall.  I cannot climb very fast at full throttle.  I saw a P51 perform at an airshow and it seemed to climb and turn with great ease.  Would someone be able to give me some tips on how to fly this aircraft to win in combat?

Thank you for your help.

[GLOC]

strip off all fuel it screws up the center of gravity that will make u turn properly.

of course the best thing to do is to fly a real plane try a spit or tempest

[Sock]

I don't know if it's just me but I find that that the P-51B out-preforms the P-51D.  I think it has something to do with the air and prop wash coming off the bubble canopy.

[SilverFox441]

Many WWII pilots agreed with you...they felt that the B was a better plane than the D.

The fuel comment is correct...the 'Stang has a fuel tank behind the seat that pushes the CofG too far to the rear for manuevering. Drain some of the fuel out and the 'Stang should fly fine.

[codered]

Thank you and I will try the fuel solution.  Yesterday, I started flying staight into a quick combat dogfight and used the P51D right off the bat.  Before I was flying a British Campaign then I would want to just goof around with the Mustang and I would find performance drops in the stang.  But if I start flying right away with the Mustang I get better performance out of the aircraft.  It was wierd.  

[nickle]

See August 2003 Flight Journal, The Best WWII Fighter, by Corky Meyer.

Corky Meyer was a Grumman test pilot F-4F-3 - F-14 and lived to write about it.
He rates the P-51 no 4 of 7 Europe.  "but they had two rather outstanding vices: poor lateral stall characteristics give them a strong tendency to enter snap rolls when in a landing-condition final turn and during gunnery runs in the clean condition. If you pulled hard at the wrong time, it was all too willing to snap over the top of the turn into a spin."

The 51 had a laminar flow wing. At least the first foot or so was laminar.  Get to Angle Of Attack where the flow is not laminar and nasty things happen.

Keep speed up as much as possible and careful of G.

It is a poor flyer in CFS3.  Better in CFS2.

[Whiskey_Zulu]

I've also noticed that the Fw-190 has a similar problem--you can't turn it because it is constantly stalling.  There is no way this could be realistic--P-51Ds and Fw-190's being unable to turn in dogfights without stalling.

[Woodlouse2002]

Drain the P51 fuel load to 30% to make it really fly. I think with the Fw190 you've just got to treat it carefully and not pull a turn to suddenly.

[nickle]

Fuel load and CG is an interesting point.
CFS1 1% have an adjustment for trim and CG.

Would you really want to be over Germany in a dogfight with 30 percent fuel remaining in a 51?

Is that sweat, sweat and a compromise on tactics?
Likely bug out and go home.

I have no idea why the fighters fly so badly in CFS3 even with the 3US major improvement.  Poor except for the Brit Spit and Typhoon.

Like the multiplayer guy said: No British fighters allowed; I don't care what yo Momma said.

[nickle]

Woodlouse

You are right on fuel and performance effect.

I set 50 percent in the 3US-P47D 2 ton truck and it made the fighter a 1 ton truck.

I had the CFS2 F4F-4 full fuel for 1 v1 Zero.  Reset to 50% and now their slim chances are slim to none.  That isn't realistic but this is a sim.

50% fuel is reasonable for dogfights 1 v 1.  Gives 5 min at combat power and bug out.

[codered]

It is not that the planes are unrealistic I am finding out, it is how I am flying them.  Once I figured a few things out, I have noticed how to fly my aircraft more efficiently.  That is the thing about dog fighting, you cannot stay there all day, or you will run out of bullets and gas.  So you must attack swiftly and use physics to gain the advantage over your adversary.  If you find you are loosing, bug out and save your aircraft to fight another day.

Thank you for the tips everyone.

[nickle]

codered

Describe your use of physics pls.

On 1 v 1 dogfighting:

It's a sim; not the real deal so stay and play.  Otherwise, what's the point?

CFS3 AI is pretty weak on tactics. CFS2 is better.

Going to 30 percent on fuel, for example, is an indication of how poorly the CFS3 US fighters, with exception of the Spit,  fly given weak AI.  Even after the significant improvement in the AvHistory models.

One of the problems I have is poor pitch control, pitch slider full left, and frame rates 30 - 40.  The problem is in the design and not in the system.

[pliabos]

[quote]It is not that the planes are So you must attack swiftly and use physics to gain the advantage over your adversary.

[nickle]

pliabos

You must be very busy with a slide rule using math and physics in a dogfight.

Not being a sim expert in dogfighting tactics this is the way I see it.

Modern, not WWII, theoretical fighter tactics is the use of kinetic and potential energy better than the bandit to achieve a firing position.  Translation is the skillful use of the vertical.  It is also the coordinated tactics of a section to concentrate on a single bandit for a few seconds to achieve a kill.

John Boyd, a Korean War USAF fighter pilot, is credited with defining the concept.  "Gengis John" The Figher Pilot Who Changed the Art of War, Amazon and other places for you fanatics.

Serious application of his theory were the essence of Top Gun and USAF Fighter Weapons School.

[Jaffa]

The P-51 suffers from a condition known as "tip-stalling'.