CFS2 collision bubble & dp

[Padser]

Hi

On the basis of my experiments, it seems that the collision bubble/offset as perceived by the game online (it seems to handle it differently offline) is effectively a sphere centred on the reference point of the aircraft model - what a pity aircraft aren't spherical in shape...

Is this the case, or am I barking up the wrong tree? Arf, arf.

Also, does anyone know if there is an interaction between the damage boxes as defined in the dp file and the size of the collision bubble.

If the model collision bubble is reduced, will the game only read hits on boxes if they are inside the bubble?

Or, when the collision bubble is reduced, does this proportionately reduce the size of the damage boxes? It doesn't seem to do this, as guns etc remain in their correct positions after the bubble is changed, but nevertheless, there does appear to be some effect on the way the aircraft registers damage from hits.  

Any thoughts?

All the best

Pads

[Woodlouse2002]

There is a main dp file in the CFS2 root folder. In there there is an insert for the collision bubble. Reducing the number for that will mean you can get much closer with out colliding. I noticed no ill effects from doing that. As I believe the collision bubble is purely for air to air collisions and not weapons damage.

[Hagar]

Isn't there a CFS.cfg tweak to fix this on all aircraft?

I also found an article on hex-editing the MDL of individual aircraft to fix that collision bubble. I'll see if I can find it.

[Padser]

Thanks 'Louse.

I can't find anything in the root folder - what is the filename?

There is a default dp in the Aircraft folder, but I think that's just for aircraft that haven't got one.

Whereabouts in the file would there be the collision bubble information?

I thought this was something that was set in the .mdl file (entry 3040)

Cheers,

Pads

[Hagar]

Pads. Read this thread. Not sure if it will help. http://www.cfcforums.com/showthread.php?t=13837

The fix will depend on the aircraft. What works for the defaults might not work for 3rd party models. There are also 2 different types of 3rd party model used in CFS2, early ones created with FSDS1 & the later ones with FSDS2/Gmax. These might all need slightly different tweaks to fix this problem.

I've mentioned before that I've never flown online so I've not experienced this problem. I've always understood that the collision bubble is caused by somethiing in the MDL file. Providing the DP is accurate it should not affect anything. We had a long discussion on all this some time ago on this forum. I suggested all the methods I knew for the various types of model but nobody came back to confirm if they worked or not. It's difficult to do this without reliable feedback.

[_526th_Fireman]

There's a great little program called MDLedit. I have it and works great. Doesn't change any damage profiles or sizes of boxes. For a long time, our only option was in the CFS2.cfg in multiplayer section, we could change the collisionsec= from 0 to 2. 2 being default. There was debate on wether 0 actually did anything so most folks had there's set to 1.

If I am not mistaken, where MDLedit changes the bubble is in the .mdl file of the acft. Not home so can't read the text on it.
Also, the last time I checked (which was a while back) MDLedit would only work on the stock CFS2 acft., but I believe an updated version was being worked on to use on any acft.

I think I got it from the Hells Angels site, not sure.  Maybe a Google will allow you to find it.

[Hagar]

Right. I'll go through what I remember from the last time we discussed this. I spent a lot of time researching all this.

At first, the only way to fix this was with the CFG tweak Fireman mentions. I also found this on the RAF662 site.

Reducing the Collision Factor 'Bubble'

   
 This allows you to get closer to other aircraft before
 they crash into each other. This can be corrected in  
 two different ways.
   
 1. (The easiest way) If you have MultiPlayer
     Session Utility 1.0 (MPSUtil) already installed
     all you have to do is run MPSUtil, select the CFS
     version, then in the Config settings check:
     COLLISION_SECS=0 and
     then hit the "Restore" button. This can be done for
     both CFS and CFS2.  
     
   
 2. Open your COMBATFS.cfg file located in the
     CFS main folder with Note Pad. Scroll down to
     the [Multiplayer] and locate
     COLLISION_SECS=2 and change the 2 to 0.  
     Save and that's it.

Not sure if this works for all aircraft or just the defaults.

Then someone found out by accident that the FS2000 Tcsfview utility also fixed the collision bubble on 3rd party aircraft created with FSDS1. This will not work on the later CFS2 aircraft created with FSDS2/Gmax.

The RAAF lads worked on this & came up with their MdlEdit utility which works in the same way as Tcdfsview - only for the defaults.

Apparently Ivan Hsu's MDLC utility has an option for the later FSDS2/Gmax models.

That's about all I know about it.

[Hagar]

Here's a few useful links.

Tcdfsview. This only works on 3rd party aircraft created with FSDS1. http://www.simviation.com/fs2000utilities_gen2.htm (These are the models that show up as a wireframe in Dped.)

MdlEdit v1.1. For CFS2 defaults only. http://www.raafsquad.com/CFS2_downloads.htm
Check out the hex-editing tute posted on the same page for reducing the collision bubble on ANY aircraft.

Frhed. Freeware hex editor. http://www.simviation.com/fsdesign_utilities.htm
MDLC at bottom of same page. Check out SoH for the latest version. This is a DOS program. There is also a Windows front-end available for it.

I think a combination of the above should fix the collision bubble on most CFS2 aircraft.

[Padser]

Hi all,

Wow - what a lot I got...

[Hagar]

This is an issue that has come out of my experimentation with those daft flyable ships I've been working on... (I can hear Hagar groan inwardly...

The ships are converted from default CFS2 mission object ships to aircraft using a modified .air file and aircraft.cfg. Everything else is straight from the box, mdl file, dp, etc.

Ah, I should have guessed. Now all is clear as mud.

This is beyond my knowledge I'm afraid. I can only go on what others have discovered. Never having played online I have no way of checking this out. Ships are obviously bigger than aircraft which might make a difference. As these are the stock ships they could well be different to 3rd party ones. It's quite possible the DP is related to the MDL in some way as that was how Dped originally worked. Providing it's accurate I wouldn't have thought modifying the MDL would make any difference but this is way out of my league. Sorry.

[Padser]

Hi

Yes, this is very much an online issue - the game handles collisions differently in the offline context. You've still been a great help though!

The ship models, dps, etc., seem very much like stock aircraft implementations, I am sure they use the same principles and techniques - it would be very wasteful programming for MS to have to invent two ways of doing the same thing unless it was absolutely necessary.

If reducing the collision offset really does impact upon the way in which an aircraft registers damage online (as it would appear to), then unless everyone is using the same setting, players using the reduced bubble could be thought to be operating at an advantage...

As it is, I think most experienced online players use a reduced bubble setting of 3, so perhaps this is not so important.

Mmm - interesting stuff, anyway.

All the best,

Pads

[Hagar]

If I was interested in playing online I might well have figured all this out by now. I have plenty of experience with Single Player but don't know how all this works online. It could be completely different & I don't know if the MDL or DP defines the damage - or perhaps a combination of both. After giving it some thought it occurs to me that one thing I've not seen mentioned is deleting the CDP file after editing the MDL. I never figured out what the CDP does but unless you delete it after modifying the DP files the changes don't take effect. It wouldn't do any harm to try it.

[Padser]

Mmm.

The CDP file is automatically generated whenever an aircraft is selected (if it doesn't exist already, in which case the existing file is used instead) - it's something to do with the way that the game interprets the dp info on the fly during actual game play, but I'm afraid the details of how and why it works elude me too...

I think some online players cheat using the CDP file. They adjust their dp, generate a new cdp and then re-adjust their dp to default so that it is not picked up by Fair Skies. Something like that anyway.

I do update the cdp this is a matter of course when editing dp files, but I have specifically tried to do it after a model adjustment  - I'm not sure it will have any impact, but I will certainly give this a try.

Good thought!

Cheers

Pads

[B24Guy]

Hi All,

Pads, I'm a bit confused. Sarg Willy and I looked into the ship bubble awhile back and we found that on most ships the bubble was too small.

For Example: Sha_Indiana   stock # (71) hex
I have mine set to (91) hex.
I have crashed into both ends of the ship to verify the change.

On line though I do not know what effect this has.

B24Guy

[Padser]

Hi

Yup, it's a funny one. I think the game must handle mission object models differently to aircraft ones, although it also seems to handle offline and online aircraft models differently, too. So may be it is doing the same thing to both aircraft and ship object models, purely dependent on the context - online or offline.

The Essex is 8F by default, so somewhat bigger than the Indiana (71).

Online, crashes occur at around 130' (or thereabouts) when approaching the Essex from the stern and bow, rather greater distances trigger collisions when the aircraft is diving in from above or approaching from the side.  

To get an approaching aircraft to register a collision pretty much as it touched the stern, I had to reduce the collision offset drastically. I don't have my figures with me at the mo', but I'll post them in when I dig them out.

I estimate the online bubble for the default Essex model to be around 500'-600' in radius, assuming it is centred on the model ref point, i.e., it extends around 100'-150' beyond the end of both bow and stern, rather higher (relatively) above the deck and bridge structures.

Bubbles for smaller ships are smaller, but collisions seem to occur in a similar manner.

This is all down to the difference with which the offline and online games handle aircraft collisions - I don't know why this is the case. But it's a massive pain the back-side...  ;)

Ah, me...

Pads