Can't Touch Ground

[HH]

It's been so long ago that I forgot how I corrected a problem of a plane sitting ten feet above the ground when landed (I was working with WW2 planes, then). I'm having a problem with a couple of my WW1 planes -- somehow I need to knock the helium out of them so the wheels at least appear to touch the ground ?!?

[Dan]

If you mena they bounce or crash when you start a flight then its *C of G height from ground in AirEd.  ;D

[HH]

That's undoubtedly what I'm looking for, if I can find it, although the planes aren't bouncing or crashing -- just hovering off the ground. Kind of like an airplane with a zeppelin fuselage (there's a concept, though it may seem a bit light-headed).
Thanks for the response. Hope all's well in the land of Cymry.

[Dan]

Hi! Cymru is the place to be... lovely (if slightly overcast) day here!  ;D

I cant remeber all that much of CFS1 TBPH, but I know for sure that we can fix it!  ;) Is it just one of the planes or a lot of them? If you have one thats particularly bad, give the link and I'll d/l it and try to rememebr the fix.

The C of G height from ground thing I mentioned. Open the aircraft in questions *.air file with William Roth's AirEd (http://www.simviation.com/files/2cfs/aired.zip) Take a look for that entry, and its in inches from the ground. Have a fiddle, see what works!  ;D
Dan

[Hagar]

Hi Dan. I haven't done any of this for a long time but it was the only thing about FS flight dynamics I knew anything about. If I remember correctly, there's two different entries you're concerned with which must match up for it to work properly. That's the 1004 Landing Gear "Position (Main & Center) Above/Below CoG" (in inches) & the 301 Fuselage "CoG Height From Ground". The latter defines the height on the runway when the sim first loads & also in Slew mode. This is what can cause an aircraft to drop & explode when you try to use it in CFS1. I used to set these separately by getting the Gear height correct first then working out the CoG height from that. This can be done by changing the Realism to Invulnerable so it doesn't explode & hitting the Pause key while the sim is loading. Go to Spot View & hit P again to see the difference between the Gear height & CoG height. I hope you can understand what I'm getting at. There's a formula for the CoG height entry which I forget right now but it involves multiplying the main gear height in inches by something like 1500 for props & 1600 for jets. This will give the rough figure but you might have to adjust it by experimenting to get it just right. You might also have to tweak the Fuselage Angle which I've found can be way out & is one of the causes of twitching when the aircraft is sitting on the runway. I think there's a tute on all this posted at FFDS.

PS. 10 feet above the runway seems rather a lot. I don't think I've ever seen an aircraft that far out.

[Dan]

I know its something like that but i couldnt remember the name of the entries. I have seen some pretty severe cases but yea, 10ft is a long way!

[HH]

Before I came in & eventually saw your present responses(my own computer is 5mi away & no online connection), I already tried resets to the Center of Gravity (kind of provides it own pun on the situation) and tweaked the angle (this biplane's tailskid was even further above ground than the main gear); there's barely a bounce on the startup now but we're still up in the air. I'll try resetting the Landing Gear again but, this time, relative to the Fuselage settings. I don't know the formula, either, but may figure close by extrapolating from planes that are properly situated if Hagar's "1500" doesn't work. Unfortunately, this takes ample time away from my texturing, but this plane is a major part of my initial campaign. I can check it out in a couple hours or so.
If this doesn't work, perhaps an mdl problem?

[Hagar]

The 301 Fuselage "CoG Height From Ground" entry only affects the position of the aircraft when it first loads. Unless you hit the Pause or Slew key while it's loading by the time you've got to Spot View to see it the aircraft will have dropped onto its gear which is defined in the 1004 Landing Gear "Position (Main & Center) Above/Below CoG entries. The Fuselage Angle should match the Landing Gear Position entries, not the other one although when it's set up correctly the 2 should be the same. The object of the exercise is for the height above the runway & the fuselage angle not to change when you go from Normal to Slew mode & vice versa.

PS. This is unlikely to have anything to do with the MDL file although the AIR file entries should obviously match the visual model. I've seen some models that are so way out it makes them almost impossible to set up, either on the ground or to fly properly. If you tell me exactly where to get this aircraft I'll check it out for you.

PPS. Get the main gear entries right first, then adjust the tailwheel entry to suit. Finally tweak the Fuselage Angle to match. If necessary you can start with an angle of 0 & do it by Mark One Eyeball.

[HH]

I see I should have re-checked this posting before I left since you responded @40min. after I posted; I was downloading someone else's S.E.5a during that time.
However, his air file was off by @40% and produced a falling aircraft (ok, not as bad as mine --  if I'd split my COG entry in half, I would have been really close): his COG was at 61605 & mine was 88000: the final render = 43400; his longitude setting is slightly higher & his angle slightly less, as well, but doesn't seem to make much difference.
With my more than doubled entry, the plane actually sat still in mid-air;
splitting between his & mine (@ 72% high) it gently rocked;
I then started cutting down his COG entry (made some back & forth changes in angle but wound up back with what I'd had) until we sat still on the ground.
Anyway, thanks for the response; maybe this will sometime help someone else.

[Hagar]

Does this mean you fixed it? From what you're saying it's an SE5a but I have no idea which one or where to get it. My offer still stands & if you tell me exactly where to download it I'll be happy to check it out. Can't promise to do any better than you but I'm used to doing this.

[HH]

Well, I got mine sitting and flying but I can't leave well enough alone; those in the download need help (they may have found different source specs than I did).
I had to retrace my steps since the specific info is with my own computer. However, I was in a real hurry in my download & didn't remember that I'd used the "search" nor the actual entry; neither did I realize that it was under 'missions' rather than 'aircraft'. Now I see a number of later WWI acft entries, one of which shows a corrected(?) repaint of one I corrected on my own (simple reversal) since I recognized it from a px I'd seen in researching (same earlier with a Snipe but that was a nearly complete retexture; now I see at least one other entry in later acft entries).
Anyway, the specific download was on 'Missions' pg.12, http://www.simviation.com/files/2cfs/WW1RFC.zip  
I've checked through these & find other errors as well, which I'm now correcting; the missions can use some help, as well. I'll redo these with added scenery (I just can't accept a barren airfield), redo waypoints (some of these are so close you crash when you 'x'-warp) & combine some other missions for the RFC. I've already more than doubled the last mission file (yes, I work backwards) - barely recognizable from its original.
Now I need to make out a new list of source names & hope everyone included them in their zips; see how easily I can get sidetracked when I started out for an 'Escadrille Lafayette' campaign? By the way, I still need a German LVG for that one: haven't found px or specs.
OK, now that I've provided 10 times the info you ever wanted, thanks much for the input.

[Hagar]

OK. I've downloaded the file & will check it out when I have a few moments. If you're happy with what you've done there's not much point in me interfering but I'm curious to see how bad this SE5a is.

[kcib2u]

   Well guy's I'am interjecting at this point because I have another LANDING GEAR ?

I just tried utilizing a 3rd party plane in a mission i built.
Previously the "player" plane and two others as "unit o" were P51d's the original name of a CFS1 aircraft.  Everything has always been fine with this mission.

Now I put the 3rd party plane in the "unit 0" slot and:
   
   1. the player plane has wheels and t/o's just fine
   2. when i look back for my buddies who are suppose to be with me, they are stuck on the runway with NO
WHEELS!
   3. my question is whats up with that??????

[Hagar]

It's bug with 3rd party aircraft in CFS1. Unless you can find one that's been SCASM edited to fix it you just have to put up with it. I can't think of one SCASM edited 3rd party aircraft for CFS1 offhand.

PS. Apart from the animated gear not showing up they should still work in the mission.

[kcib2u]

Yes, that is correct they do show up to fight at the next waypoint, thank goodness, otherwise it would be five against one!!

Thanks for the info. I'll just live with it!

Have a great DAY!