Image Capture Programs!

[Flying Homer]

Alpha agrees with Soui and votes

NO

Remember, in the freeware forums the playing ground is supposed to be even. This software will give certain people advantages in the contest and just allows them to produce better shots than others.
I agree with Heretic, this could be the beginning of the Pete's freeware concept starting to crumble.

I second that!

NO

[gryshnak]

There's a Freeware forum.
There's a Payware forum.

Active Camera is Payware.

What was the question again?

[Fly2e]

So in the freeware screenshots forum there is no "advantage" to anyone of using Active Cam or W&F

I don't understand!!
What do you mean by Advantage?

This is not a contest!!
That is why we do not allow it in the Monthly contest.

IT IS A SCREENSHOT FORUM!

I think what it comes down to is people are a bit jealous of somebody who may have paid for it and feel like they should not dare attempt to post a shot in here.

If we do decide to allow it, what is the harm?

An even playing field

Jeez, it is only a shot of a plane and some of you make this out to be like a "That is not fair!!!"

[ATI_7500]

People with W&F will get all the "oooh" and "aaah", will people without W&F will only get two replies stating "nice shots".
Methinks that's what Alpha wanted to point out.

IF this poll turns out in favor for W&F, I want everyone posting shots taken with W&F here to designate their threads with "[W&F]" to make distinguishing between normal and extra special threads easier.

[krigl]

I am not affected by this any more so I can say I am impartial....so here's my 2c (already voted yes before...)

The payware forum, as stated by Fly2e, is for people interested in payware planes and scenery ie Emmas Field. That's what its for. Using W+F is not of interest there.

Grysnak and Pete have both stated that it is possible to get the same effects by using F1 view, so one would imagine there isn't really a problem.

As a user of both I would say that W=F can be used with any planes, not just those with an all-plane VC. I doubt if it is possible to take a default C172 with the ground above it with F1, but who knows..

But what W+F does do is it enables screenshot fans to take better pics of anything they want. Why not use it? If you choose not to, why is it a problem that others use it?  However, I can't see a reason why not to use it (in freeware, not the comp) - its easy and fun, will make your FS experience better and costs 30 dollars.

But its payware!!! Well...

Many people have their computer specs in their Sig and post threads like "My first pics with the new system". Their new system cost a lot of money. Others cannot afford it. The 'playing field' is not 'even', even in the contest. Many people on this whole site can't even run FS2004.

To spend a ton on a new computer and then ask people who spend $30 on a screenshot program to post their freeware shots in payware where people want to look at the latest payware planes/scenery seems strange. Who spent more?

Why not enjoy the fruits of other people's 'art work' made with W+F, and think about buying it yourself when you next consider an upgrade. If you'd rather spend a bit more on the latest graphics card, okay, but why stop others...

like I said, I don't really care too much now because I'm in Payware but I just find it hard to understand how a nice development in our hobby is rejected so violently. This is a fun hobby shared by like-minded enthusiasts, not a competion. ...

Thats all guys

Regards

Krigl

[ATI_7500]

like I said, I don't really care too much now because I'm in Payware but I just find it hard to understand how a nice development in our hobby is rejected so violently.

Because people are charging a ridiculously high price for it? And not all of us teenies have a credit card? Or the money to buy that? Or at least we're not willing to spend our money on payware.
FS has become too much of a money-making machine...

[Alphajet_Enthusiast]

people are a bit jealous of somebody

I doubt it. I have active camera myself, as well as F1 view on my other PC.

As for walk and follow (my main grudge):
I think that Geforce 7800GT - 1024MB RAM - AMD ATHLON 64 3500+ - MSI K8N SLI NFORCE 4 CHIPSET BASED MOTHERBOARD PLATINUM EDITION - 19 INCH BENQ LCD MONITOR - SAITEK X45  were a tad more expensive than one little payware program.

Then again, I dont want to turn this into a major issue on my behalf so just ignore me, im going to go watch flying heavy metal on the discovery.
Just my opinion...

Still friends everybody

[Fly2e]

Because people are charging a ridiculously high price for it? And not all of us teenies have a credit card? Or the money to buy that? Or at least we're not willing to spend our money on payware.
FS has become too much of a money-making machine...

Thank You Bjorn,
you have proven my point.

It comes down to this:::
"Since I can't get it, I don't want it in here".
"Screw the payware companies, they are not allowed in here at all"!

So it is a crusade against ALL Payware even when a simple screenshot image taking program like W+F can provide all the Freeware Screenshot Forum posters a unique shot here and there.

As I can see it, we are only talking about a few people here and there,
seams like your loss to me.  ::)

Dave

[Fly2e]

Still friends everybody

Of course, that is not what this is about.
It is about hearing what people think about the subject at hand.  ;D

[ATI_7500]

So it is a crusade against ALL Payware even when a simple screenshot image taking program like W+F can provide all the Freeware Screenshot Forum posters a unique shot here and there.

Payware is and remains payware, no matter how breathtaking it may be.
And "unique shots" are way better when they're taken with simple programs like F1 View.

[krigl]

People with W&F will get all the "oooh" and "aaah", will people without W&F will only get two replies stating "nice shots".
Methinks that's what Alpha wanted to point out.

IF this poll turns out in favor for W&F, I want everyone posting shots taken with W&F here to designate their threads with "[W&F]" to make distinguishing between normal and extra special threads easier.

That's a good point, Heretic. However, it is also true of people with a great computer system, or who have the time+knowledge to find great new planes/scenery which attract interest. It will probably also be true when some people have FS2006 and the rest not.

If you are interested in getting responses to your 'work', as everyone to some degree is, you have to invest a lot of time into it, but also money in your computer system. Screenshots full of jaggies from FS98 don't attract a lot of attention, it's true.

Investing in W+F or FS10 is the same deal. Money. If you haven't got it then it's best to just accept it and enjoy the results produced by people who have... But to be honest, 30 dollars to people who spend 300 or 600 on graphics cards, memory, processors, cooling etc is not a big deal...

Because people are charging a ridiculously high price for it? And not all of us teenies have a credit card? Or the money to buy that? Or at least we're not willing to spend our money on payware.
FS has become too much of a money-making machine...

My computer was terrible before March or so. (I was also pretty poor, as an English teacher in Eastern Europe but then we got a new, temporary source of income... until my looks fade ) I looked in on SimV but saw the quality and didn't bother trying...It wouldn't have occured to me to tell people that they should turn down their settings so their pics could be like mine.

The playing field is not level, here or in life. And all we are talking about here is taking screenshots of angled horizons, which I think look pretty cool and would like to see more of.

Still friends? You bet guys, I love it in here and don't want to antagonise.. Just my opinion, take or leave as you like.

To be honest, actually, now I'm in payware I'm kind of hoping this poll

[ATI_7500]

There are still people with lower end systems who can produce great shots, Triple_7 for example or Mr. Mugel. If someone knows his computer, he can tweak it so that he is able to run his FS with better graphics. It's not in your system, it's all in the settings. I've seen high-end systems producing terrible quality screenies (the early ARMonkey for example) but once you show the people how to enable anti-aliasing and stuff and tell them how to find a good performance/quality balance most of the reasons for bad screenies are ruled out.

[krigl]

There are still people with lower end systems who can produce great shots, Triple_7 for example or Mr. Mugel. If someone knows his computer, he can tweak it so that he is able to run his FS with better graphics. It's not in your system, it's all in the settings. I've seen high-end systems producing terrible quality screenies (the early ARMonkey for example) but once you show the people how to enable anti-aliasing and stuff and tell them how to find a good performance/quality balance most of the reasons for bad screenies are ruled out.

Very true... here we're talking about knowledge, experience and time as investments... my pics were just jaggied shots of a plane flying until I looked in here, got very helpful advice, absorbed how other people take nice pics, got inspiration and so on.... if it doesn't occur to you, or you are not a creative type or you don't understand your computer (I only found out about tweaking the card a month or two back, didn't know it was possible) then you never get 'better'. Playing field still not level....IMHO.. and why should it be. People are different...

It's also a matter of taste, my first cessna shots in payware attracted one comment that they were worse than in freeware, plus a couple of comments that I bought the wrong cessna... not much praise there for my W+F and FE. And they weren't bad... in fact I quite liked them

I got some nice pics out of my old computer too, but it was like playing a slide show. No fun. Either enjoy flying, or post nice-ish shots. Now I can do both - Yippee!!!

Cost me a bomb of course... my money which also goes on house, car, wife, children... working adults have less free money than pre-work guys imagine...And less time - when I stay up late in my only free time taking pics it means the next day I'm exhausted, and have to perform in front of a class... another kind of investment - in the destruction of my health

All I want to do is post my 'art' on a site which is different from work - is free, and fun, without too many rules, except those that safeguard people from aggression, offence etc.  And I want to mix with other like minded people, look at their great stuff. This is my idea of fun.... (I have others too...) I've looked around the net and SimV really seems to be the best for screenshot forums...so whatever the result of this poll I don't mind too much...

It's been nice debating with you Heretic, hope we're still amicable friends!!!

See you later, got to work now...

Krigl

[ATI_7500]

..if it doesn't occur to you, or you are not a creative type or you don't understand your computer (I only found out about tweaking the card a month or two back, didn't know it was possible) then you never get 'better'.

But that's the problem. How do you want to operate something when you don't understand it? You have to get into the matter to use it to its full extent. Even if it's with the help of others (forums,chats) or reading books or websites and if it's costing you some of your precious free time.

Playing field still not level....IMHO.. and why should it be. People are different...

The playing field is level. It just comes down to experience. "How can I increase quality and performance?"
The newbie may needhours and a lot of help to figure that out, the pro only needs one reference site and thirty minutes. Same with add-ons and screenshots.
And speaking of screenshots, what's better? Fiddling and fiddling and getting a satisfying "gosh that looks great" for your hard work or using a tool saving you some work and getting the same comments like "great looking shots" for something that you only needed two minutes for?

It's like climbing a mountain. The freeware guys are doing it like their ancestors did, with their feet, for free and a lot of time and sweat while the payware guys who payed for a helicopter ride get to the top earlier, but don't have the rewarding "I did it!" feeling.

not much praise there for my W+F and FE. And they weren't bad... in fact I quite liked them

Higher standards in the payware forum. Live with it.

It's been nice debating with you Heretic, hope we're still amicable friends!!!

Sure. Remember: I can't stand payware, but looking at it isn't harmful.

[krigl]

Had to pop back in

In answer to Heretic again...

...I hope people don't feel there's been a hijacking by the way, I think (hope) the points we are both making are useful...

But that's the problem. How do you want to operate something when you don't understand it? You have to get into the matter to use it to its full extent. Even if it's with the help of others (forums,chats) or reading books or websites and if it's costing you some of your precious free time.



The playing field is level. It just comes down to experience. "How can I increase quality and performance?"
The newbie may needhours and a lot of help to figure that out, the pro only needs one reference site and thirty minutes. Same with add-ons and screenshots.
And speaking of screenshots, what's better? Fiddling and fiddling and getting a satisfying "gosh that looks great" for your hard work or using a tool saving you some work and getting the same comments like "great looking shots" for something that you only needed two minutes for?

It's like climbing a mountain. The freeware guys are doing it like their ancestors did, with their feet, for free and a lot of time and sweat while the payware guys who payed for a helicopter ride get to the top earlier, but don't have the rewarding "I did it!" feeling.


Higher standards in the payware forum. Live with it.


Sure. Remember: I can't stand payware, but looking at it isn't harmful.

Regarding spending ages twiddling to get the best shots...

If a plane has an outside VC you can take the same shots using F1, if it hasn't, you can't (probably).

You'll spend just as long with W+F if not longer; more possibilities, more choices... the results can be great and you are just as satisfied. I haven't noticed any time saving since using these programs (w+f and FE), but my enjoyment of flying and screenie taking has increased immensely..

It's also more fun!!! I love placing the plane in one corner and then looping it, inverting etc, and seeing the sky and ground whirl crazily around me while following the plane as if in formation. It's the only formation I'm probably ever going to manage, I suck at it in mp .

It adds to the feeling of motion and flying and you can enjoy it with any plane, even the default 747 if you like......sloooowly...

A second point: The "spirit of freeware" is commonly held to be about guys giving up their free time to create something, enjoying this process of course, and then making it available for free. I think it's great of them to do this, and that is why you'll never (well, almost never ) hear me complaining about the deficiencies of some plane - I take them as I find them, and if I don't like them... bye bye.

However, taking screenshots is not "creating freeware" it is simply enjoying the fruits of other people's labour, and it is possible to argue that by using W+F and other things like FE you are actually showing off other people's work in the best possible light, doing it justice, helping to bring it to a wider audience etc.

Thirdly, and briefly, I disagree that there are higher standards in payware... there are high standards in both forums, and both have their star posters which I marvel at and try to learn from. And my favourite are the stories, where quality of shot comes second or equally with the ideas that go into them.

When I stated 'not much praise for my FE and w+f" what I mean is that no one said "wow FE!! or W+F"
People say "Yeah, Captain Sim Hercules!" or "Great Carenado XXX". W+F is just a tool... payware is imho for payware collectors... The RealAir Spit. The FeelThere so and so...

I have to say that if I had the cash I would also be collecting payware. Why not...

Cheers

Krigl