VC-10 Aerobatic Certification

[cheesegrater]

I heard some people claiming the VC-10 had an aerobatic certification. I tired searching the web to confirm this but I haven't found anything.

Did it have an aerobatic certification? What exactly is meant by "aerobatic certification"? What kind of maneuvers can you do, that you can't do on other liners?

[C]

Er, no...

I stand to be corrected, but I'm 99.99999% sure...

[Ecko]

I believe it was our VC-10 enthusiast, Voloberilista, or something to that extend, who stated it could do aerobatics? You could try to PM him with directions to this thread. I think he only hangs around the FS2004 forum.

[Hagar]

One wonders why a large 4-engined jet airliner would need an aerobatics certification. All sorts of aircraft might be capable of aerobatics but would never be expected to do them during their normal service life.

[expat]

The 707 has been barrel rolled, so could it obtain a licence for this one manover......for the sake of conversation.

Matt

[vololiberista]

A Barrel roll doesn't count as aerobatics as it is a 1G manouevre.
The VC10 was given a "Utility" class airworthiness certificate which is CAA speak for aerobatics.
The airframe is immensely strong as all the panels and frames are milled out of solid metal!!!!!!
In 1966 there was a tragic accident involving a BOAC 707 which broke up in clear air turbulence over Mount Fuji.  The VC10 would have survived  And indeed in 1974 i was in a VC10 over Istanbul when we hit clear air turbulence.  The wings flexed almost to their fatigue limit!!!! To avoid any more we climbed to FL460 for the rest of the journey to London!!

Vololiberista

[C]

A Barrel roll doesn't count as aerobatics as it is a 1G manouevre.

Not really. A barrel roll involves a full rotation through the inverted (as like any other full roll) so would be classed as an aerobatic manouvre - unless you say that a roll isn't an aerobatic manouvre.

[vololiberista]

Not really. A barrel roll involves a full rotation through the inverted (as like any other full roll) so would be classed as an aerobatic manouvre - unless you say that a roll isn't an aerobatic manouvre.

Even though the a/c inverts it remains a 1g manoeuvre throughout so it's no different to flying straight and level!!
http://www.aviationexplorer.com/707_roll_video.htm
vololiberista

[cheesegrater]

Not really. A barrel roll involves a full rotation through the inverted (as like any other full roll) so would be classed as an aerobatic manouvre - unless you say that a roll isn't an aerobatic manouvre.

I don't know what is the criteria for an aerobatic manouver, however the 707 roll was a 1G roll.

[Isak922]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerobatic_maneuver States that even basic barrel rolls are considered aerobatic maneuvers.

[vololiberista]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerobatic_maneuver States that even basic barrel rolls are considered aerobatic maneuvers.

In as much as it looks scary!!!

http://www.aviationexplorer.com/707_roll_video.htm

But it is only 1G.  I'll delve into the CAA definition of "Utility" to find out exactly their idea of aerobatics.  But certainly the VC10 could and was chucked about the sky in true aerobatic manoeuvres.
Vololiberrista

[Hagar]

[quote]
In as much as it looks scary!!!

http://www.aviationexplorer.com/707_roll_video.htm

But it is only 1G.

[vololiberista]

PS. Like most British aircraft of the period the VC10 was over-engineered & built like a brick outhouse. This is just one reason for its lack of success.

The reason for it's lack of success was largely political. BOAC were forced to order it and did everything they could to do it down falsifying efficiencies, passenger figures  etc etc etc. The reason behind this is that they were in the pocket of Boeing.  The head of BOAC at that time had a secret agreement to "acquire" (not buy) 707's Yes that's right. Boeing gave BOAC launch 707's for free!!!!!

The fact that the VC10 was prefered by crew and passengers alike was quite embarassing for BOAC esp

[Hagar]

The reason for it's lack of success was largely political.

That might have been the main reason & it's nothing unusual either before or since. The destruction of the British aircraft industry was nothing short of a national disgrace. However, this has no bearing on any airliner requiring an aerobatic certification.

[C]

In as much as it looks scary!!!

Well, argue as much as you like, but last time I barrel rolled, it was an aerobatic manouvre - by definition of the VC10's final operator...

You may be quite right about it being subject to manouvres as such (Dizzy Addicot's name appears here and there), but I doubt they would get the certification and clearance in the release to service/airworthiness certificates...