Was WWII Worth it?

[ATI_7500]

Scenario B.  If communism is so grand, and there are still a handful of communist governments lying around (China, North Vietnam, North Korea, Cuba...)

Where do you guys live again?

Give me money for a plane ticket.

[ozzy72]

North Korea is Stalinist not Communist, its REALLY bad!
China is quite liberal nowadays and I have several friends living and working there, its cool (and they have lovely food)
Cuba, well I'd love to see it, and the dark rum they make is without a doubt the finest on the planet, the cigars are nice as well
As for Vietnam, well I don't know much about it, but it seems to be becoming a more and more popular tourist destination for those looking for something a little different...
Its a funny old world eh?

Mark

Ps. The hardest place to get into these days seems to be the US, all these visa/security wobblers. Heck its easier to visit some former Soviet republic, the world has gone mad!

[ATI_7500]

Cuba, well I'd love to see it, and the dark rum they make is without a doubt the finest on the planet, the cigars are nice as well

Girls! You forgot the girls! *waves arms in air*

Ps. The hardest place to get into these days seems to be the US, all these visa/security wobblers.

Ah, the good old United States of Paranoia.

[Hyperion2]

It has nothing to do with paranoia.  

People seem to think they have a right to come to this country.  They don't.  We can let you come, we can turn you away.  If you (as one being turned away) can't accept that, I could not possibly care less.

If it hadn't been earned previously, on September 11th we earned the right to know who is coming into our home and turn away those who we think are here for the wrong reasons.

The concept of the melting pot is great, as long as there's some melting going on.  When you come here to do harm to our nation, when you come here to milk our social systems, you don't belong here.  

[Hagar]

[quote]People seem to think they have a right to come to this country.

[Hyperion2]

Hagar, one of the hottest issues in the US right now is illegal immigration from Mexico.  Many people, including the mainstream media as a whole, suggest that we don't have a right to stop these criminals, because they just want to come here and work hard.

It has actually been said that if you oppose illegal immigration, you're a racist who hates hispanics.

[Hagar]

You're not alone in that. We suffer from much the same here so it can't be such a bad place to live can it? I really don't see what the US problem with Mexican immigrants coming over a land border has to do with this thread.

[Hyperion2]

The thread diverted when someone remarked that the US was the United States of Paranoia.

[ozzy72]

I think the European attitude is different as most countries here have been fighting terrorism in one form or another since the end of WWII and doubly so since the 60's. I think a lot of Europeans forget America is playing catch-up in a big way and trying to do everything at once, and as anyone who has done an all-night cramming session for an exam will tell you "That don't work". Europeans have consideraly more experience fighting terrorism than most other parts of the world...

[Hyperion2]

Very true, Mark.  Another disadvantage we've got is that whenever we try to implement something, the left stands up and says "You can't do that, it's a violation of our civil rights."  (As if patting down Middle Eastern men is so far off target.)

el Al has the right idea.  But we'd NEVER in a million years be able to play by those rules.  

[Woodlouse2002]

Thats a disadvantage everyones got. The problem is what ever you try to impose is far too strict and ultimately far too useless. What you have to realise is that a determined terrorist will find a way in however tough the restrictions are. And only a very stupid terrorist these days would A: take thier weapons and explosives on the plane with them while sneaking into the country and B: try to hijack an aircraft post 9/11.

[Saitek]

As far as the original question goes - no. 50+ million lives is just something unthinkable.

However, probably in less than 10 years alone (from Hitler's invading of Poland) more lives would have been lost from Hitler's purifying program than ever from the fight back. Therefore the awful loss was worth it as we are the grandchildren from those who survived - and to be honest I'm glad to be alive today - aren't you?

Nice contradiction there, but there is nothing so precious as freedom.

As for immigration... we have tens of thousands coming into the Uk every year and 75% of them just are unthankful, lazy, illiterate people who take from society and only give back their *ahem* religion which most of us in the UK would rather they didn't. Terrorism threats have increased and we have dug our own pit and are ready to fall into the trap and it is just as the chief police would put it "not if, but when".

[Woodlouse2002]

As for immigration... we have tens of thousands coming into the Uk every year and 75% of them just are unthankful, lazy, illiterate people who take from society and only give back their *ahem* religion which most of us in the UK would rather they didn't. Terrorism threats have increased and we have dug our own pit and are ready to fall into the trap and it is just as the chief police would put it "not if, but when".

Actually, most immigrants come to the west looking for work. You don't spend your life savings getting smuggled into a country so you can just sit on your arse and twiddle your thumbs. The problem is a lot of them can't find work and that is why they get a bad rep. Finally, if the government gets its way and sends over 50% of students through university, then someones going to have to do the unskilled labour and it's asylum seekers that are going fill that void.

[ozzy72]

Alas that is true Woodie, all the dumb terrs got wiped out a long time ago...
I think part of the problem from Americas view is that they did have open borders and alas the CIA trained many of these groups how to get around much stricter regimes security, and now that the West has abandoned them they've decided to turn on the hand that fed them as they can't settle into peace. It is sad but history does repeat itself.
Britain had the same thing with the Communist Chinese in Malaysia in the 50's, during WWII our allies against the Japanese, we trained and financed them. Then when we had no more use for them we left them, then we spent about 12 years fighting an insurrection All politicians should be made to read history so they can try not to make the same balls-ups their predecessors did

[OTTOL]

All politicians should be made to read history so they can try not to make the same balls-ups their predecessors did

....that advice should be tatooed to their foreheads!  
The article does reek of the man's  political agenda or party based trash talk. He is however accurate in my opinion in many respects. I think the title is what creates an immediate bias before the reader even begins the article. It should be titled "did everyone adequately clean up their mess at the end of WWII?"  
The tragedy that the US allowed  in Indochina is "prime example No.1", under Mark's credo.
Someone help me out here.....which former ally was it that was butchering young Americans 20 years later in the same jungles?
.....and whatever happened to those Mujahadeen guys that we supplied all of those weapons to?

on September 11th we earned the right to know who is coming into our home

...oops, nevermind, that's where they went....

Was there another solution to what would become the Soviet Union? I think it was a matter of being the path of least resistance. The eastern bloc countries were simply the spoils of war and no one wanted to argue with the Russians.

I agree with some of the others. NO government is perfect but if communism is so wonderful, how do you explain the fate of the former Soviet Union? And I have been to Cuba and it's very beautiful but  any recent prosperity is due to a thriving tourist industry(that's right....Capitalism). I would argue this point further but can simply put it to bed by saying that "you don't see people fleeing the United States via inner tube."