RE: Rotty's

[Brett_Henderson]

I just got that phone message (that phone is 600 miles away from me right now)(long story)..

Anyway.. this is a good place to respond, as it's a good, aviation question..

Q: Would you fly a Cherokee Six, directly over lake Michigan..

A: As long as the winds aloft were not X-winds in the neighborhood of 40 knots (as in, more than 45 degrees either side of my course).. Yes

Doesn't matter if it's a headwind or tailwind as that's the old give-n-take (just moves your "can't glide to land" zone one way or the other).. but a crosswind has NO upside. Even with a headiwind you can turn around .. make sense ?

ANYway..

[RitterKreuz]

sure i would do it just the same way...

i would add flight following to the equation, if you have any problems let ATC to know to keep track of your position and send a boat if needed  ;D

also... remain vigilant to the fact that engines seem to spit and sputter and make strange noises when over water like that.  ;D

[DaveSims]

I guess I'm even more conservative, but I wouldn't do it single engine.  Odds are you could do it a hundred times without incident, but it only takes once to change your mind.

[Brett_Henderson]

[quote]I guess I'm even more conservative, but I wouldn't do it single engine.

[DaveSims]

I know the odds are slim, but my life has enough risk in it being a firefighter that I try to control all the rest as much as I can.  

[beaky]

I've mulled it over myself, and figure at 150 knots or so I can stand the "exposure window".

But I'm gonna buy a life vest tomorrow, in case he doesn't have any aboard.
At least that way, if we do go in, if the cold gets to me my head will be above water for a while (assuming calm water).

There was a recent poll on this very subject on the PoA board recently; responses were basically split between "done it a million times, yawn"; "only with a drysuit and a raft"; and "no way!".

We may stop in Kalamazoo to pick up the PIC's son, in which case the Lake Erie leg won't be so bad... but regardless, I'm gonna go.

The only bummer is that I will probably not get any time logged, because he is taking an IFR student, and I figure the student will fly most of the trip.
But it beats the hell out of driving...  ;D

[DaveSims]

Is that your ride to Oshkosh?  

[beaky]

sure i would do it just the same way...

i would add flight following to the equation, if you have any problems let ATC to know to keep track of your position and send a boat if needed  ;D

also... remain vigilant to the fact that engines seem to spit and sputter and make strange noises when over water like that.  ;D

A sobering thought on this: according to a Chicago-based PP I know, there are only two USCG helo stations that cover Lake Michigan, and  both are within at least 30 minutes of the typical midpoint area of the lake.(which is vast!).
 If you ditched in the lake in any time other than high summer, you'd likely stiffen up and go to the bottom before they got there. I've been told that at its warmest, that water is rarely over 60F near the surface.  In the wintertime, you'd be done for.
And if the weather was rough, they'd have a helluva time just finding you among the whitecaps.
As for boats, they're a lot slower than choppers... the smartest thing a pilot with trouble could do, other than getting a good position report out, would be to try to ditch near any water vessel in sight.

[beaky]

Is that your ride to Oshkosh?  

Indeed it is. Just found out yesterday that there was a seat available... otherwise I'd have been setting out in my car about now... ugh, I'm glad I'm not doing that this year.

[DaveSims]

[quote][quote]sure i would do it just the same way...

i would add flight following to the equation, if you have any problems let ATC to know to keep track of your position and send a boat if needed

[Brett_Henderson]

The water survival is an afterthought.. I'd just assume that in the dead-man-space over water, you're as dead as if you lost power over a forested area.. and lord knows I've flown  way more than 10 minutes of "dead space" over trees...

Funny thing is.. ALL of these scenarios are vastly safer than a typical landing at night.. or ANY takeoff..

If you lose power at the outer marker, at night.. or right after takeoff in any congested area, any time of day.. you're in deep doo-doo..

[BigTruck]

[quote][quote]sure i would do it just the same way...

i would add flight following to the equation, if you have any problems let ATC to know to keep track of your position and send a boat if needed

[Boss_BlueAngels]

I much prefer attempting a road landing than a water landing.  That's basically how I learned to land anyway.  30 foot wide postage-stamp airstrip with tall buildings and trees surrounding it.  

[beaky]

Well, I'm not sure I'd do it if I were PIC, but I survived not one but four crossings beyond gliding distance of any shore on this trip (Lake Erie and Lake Michigan, twice each)... part of the reason was that although we filed IFR both ways, with the load and the hot, humid air, the plane did not want to climb much. They tried to get 8000 on the way out over Lake Michigan, but by the time we got there from 6000, we'd have almost crossed the lake.

We did the first two lake crossings at 6000, and the return trip at 5000.  :o

It was definitely a minimum-risk scenario, though, despite the lack of a landing site for a good deal of time: the engine is quite fresh, we had IFR capability and were on radar the whole time... and I had my little PFD, just in case.  ;)

The going was much smoother on the return trip, to the extent that I fell asleep as we crossed Lake Erie a second time.

The PIC laughed at my concern..."You think this is risky; I once ferried a 210 from Australia to New Jersey!"