Dream deferred...

[beaky]

Well, I was pretty excited about the possibility of buying a first plane this year, but it looks like it may have to wait a while.  :(

Didn't quite make the grade, credit score-wise, for my first loan inquiry, and without a loan, it ain't gonna happen.

But I'm not out of options: in a few months I can beef up my score a little, and there are other lenders out there (although it's not a good idea to submit several applications in a brief period, so I have to wait a bit).

Then there's another possibility: maybe Lady Luck will smile on my raffle stub for the 1940 Air Terminal Museum's C-140 giveaway.  ;D

Somebody's going to win it; you never know...  ;)

That's something to smile about, I guess... but I am bumming.  

Just heard that N2205N found a new owner- I'm happy for the seller, but it smarts because that was a good deal. I'd sent away for the FAA records disc on it, and it looked real good, history-wise.

[Brett_Henderson]

My plans have stalled, too. You already know that I never was of the school that airplane ownership makes financial sense to those not flying more than 20 hours, every month..   and if your flying ever falls below that, it's actually costing you more to fly than renting. In that vain.. the old car salesman in me won't let me pay more for an airplane, than I could get for it if I had to sell it quickly (which means I'll need good timing to find the person who has to sell quickly.. and this guy is in no hurry), so I too am plane-less (and kinda bummed).

The best bet for both of us.. is co-ownership, where both owers are easy-going and of the same mind. Pitty we aren't neighbors..  :D

[The Ruptured Duck]

We should just burn all financial institutions down.

My fam was denied a home loan last spring because of a loan of which we had one more payment left on it.  So we had to wait untill september to move during the beginning of school (terrible time) and we didn't get the house we we really really liked!

[beaky]

My plans have stalled, too. You already know that I never was of the school that airplane ownership makes financial sense to those not flying more than 20 hours, every month..   and if your flying ever falls below that, it's actually costing you more to fly than renting. In that vain.. the old car salesman in me won't let me pay more for an airplane, than I could get for it if I had to sell it quickly (which means I'll need good timing to find the person who has to sell quickly.. and this guy is in no hurry), so I too am plane-less (and kinda bummed).

The best bet for both of us.. is co-ownership, where both owers are easy-going and of the same mind. Pitty we aren't neighbors..  :D

Looking for a partner is still an option for me, although it's not near the top of my list.
Let's face it, even with a partner, it's not a terrific investment (although it can be if you're smart and lucky).
But  what I want to pay for is the simple pleasure of sole ownership.

Harder to pay for (especially maintenance and repair); more time and labor; more liability; riskier investment... but it's worth it me. It's only money...

 But more's the pity: I know I can fit all that in my budget, but that alone is does not make me a good risk to the odds-makers.  

But I'm not bitter: I brought it on myself by getting into the credit game before I understood it completely.  

  So... (looks over shoulder)... I buy 1/3 of a decent 170 with you, and we keep it halfway between Columbus and NYC; we form a small club based there; you fly tailwheel checkouts with members and non-members; I get my comm and CFI with you... etc... ?

Call it "Plan Z."

[Hagar]

I feel for you but you are not alone. Now is not a good time to ask for a loan & I'm not sure when the situation will improve. A lot of private aircraft owners I know in this country can only afford it as part of a syndicate.

[Fozzer]

Owning, and running a simple Motor Car reduces you to abject poverty, so I dread to think about anyone owning, and running an Aircraft.. ...!

I would have thought a Hire Aircraft would be a better proposition for the rare/occasional flight... ...!

[Brett_Henderson]

There's no gettin' around it....

[Hagar]

One alternative is a microlight.* I don't know about the US but these are becoming very popular in the UK now. I'm looking forward to seeing the latest designs at the International Microlight Fair at Popham in a couple of weeks time. Keep an eye on the Photos forum.

Before rejecting the idea out of hand, microlights come in all shapes & sizes and there are a lot of nice-looking aircraft in this range now. http://www.loop.aero/features/features/2006/June/2
Either build it yourself or find one pre-built. Of course, it will still need maintenance & hangarage which don't come cheap.

*PS. To avoid confusion these are called ultralights in the US.

[Craig.]

Just curious, but couldn't you get your instructors/commercial rating if you've not got one, and perhaps run a part time flight school? Not sure if it would be cost effective, or perhaps a weekend pleasure flight thing. I'm not in on the finer details so please feel free to educate me on it, but surely if your able to bring in a little cash while also flying it, that would help.
Maybe even take it to your bank manager as a business proposal, which might help with a loan.

[Brett_Henderson]

Just curious, but couldn't you get your instructors/commercial rating if you've not got one, and perhaps run a part time flight school? Not sure if it would be cost effective, or perhaps a weekend pleasure flight thing. I'm not in on the finer details so please feel free to educate me on it, but surely if your able to bring in a little cash while also flying it, that would help.
Maybe even take it to your bank manager as a business proposal, which might help with a loan.

That's possible, and some cases feasible.. But to offest the cost of going from a PPL to a Commercial, intrument-rated Instructor (nearly as costly as a $20,000 plane), you'd have to plan, and be able to do it as your primary income. Once you open up the reality of using the plane for hire, commercial insurance kicks in, and it can be thousands per month. I know a couple of people who instruct from their own plane.. but it's more a retired hobby, than an income. You'd never be able to replace a real-full-time income (needed to buy the plane in the first place), by instructing.

[Brett_Henderson]

One alternative is a microlight. I don't know about the US but these are becoming very popular in the UK now. I'm looking forward to seeing the latest designs at the International Microlight Fair at Popham in a couple of weeks time. Keep an eye on the Photos forum.

Before rejecting the idea out of hand, microlights come in all shapes & sizes and there are a lot of nice-looking aircraft in this range now. http://www.loop.aero/features/features/2006/June/2
Either build it yourself or find one pre-built. Of course, it will still need maintenance & hangarage which don't come cheap.

I've seriously considered those, too. Not long ago, I was getting fuel at a small airport, and a guy was pulling a "small" plane out a hangar, getting ready to take it up. We talked a bit, and for the pure pleasure of being airborne.. they are a VERY viable alternative  :) (though I'd still advise that the potential micro-light pilot complete a standard PPL training program (not applicable in Rotty's case)..

For me though... it's so much more than just flying for the sake of being in the air. If I couldn't up and fly 1,000 miles away... you know, actually GO somewhere WITH someone.. (including managing other than ideal weather)... it would get boring in a hurry. A big part of being a pilot, is flight-planning, trip-taking, navigating, and sharing it all with others.

[beaky]

Someday I will have an ultralight, or build a Light Sport-certed plane... but my first one has to have a little more utility than that.

I ran the numbers on operating and maintaining something like a 140 and it would not be much of a strain on me at all (barring bombshells like engine overhauls, etc.)... the trouble is purchasing the damn thing.

Oh well, at the very least I know I can squirrel away enough for a 140 in about two years if I scrimp a little... but of course, by then they will all probably be going for $10K more and fuel will be $10/gal. by then...

[Hagar]

Oh well, at the very least I know I can squirrel away enough for a 140 in about two years if I scrimp a little... but of course, by then they will all probably be going for $10K more and fuel will be $10/gal. by then...

Look on the bright side. Fuel is already over $12 per gallon on this side of the Pond & that's cheap. http://www.popham-airfield.co.uk/Fuel.htm

[Fozzer]

Look on the bright side. Fuel is already over $12 per gallon on this side of the Pond & that's cheap. http://www.popham-airfield.co.uk/Fuel.htm

Talking about the cost of Fuel...
..as an aside...My Gas Company* has just increased my Direct Debit monthly payments from

[Hagar]

I have every sympathy with you Sean, believe me. I'm sure you will achieve your dream some day if you continue to feel as strongly about it as you do now. When I was younger my only dream was to get a PPL & perhaps own a little aeroplane or glider. The ironic thing is that now I have the time & could afford to do it I've lost the enthusiasm. I shall never lose my fascination with aviation but doing it myself is no longer important to me.

Not wishing to appear flippant but I've always wondered how Americans distinguish between the Gas that Fozzer's cooker runs on & the Gas (gasoline) used in cars & aircraft.