How easy it is to become "Lost"..!

[Fozzer]

..I feel I must congratulate her though, for successfully carrying out, and surviving, an emergency landing with little, or no injury to herself, and only slight damage to the aircraft (repairable?).

Her biggest worry and embarrassment now, is the possibility of increased Insurance Premiums to be levied upon the owners of the aircraft...!

We can just hope that it doesn't put her off continuing to enjoy flying, which can easily happen in such circumstances..!!

F....G-BPLF... 8-)...!

...motorcycle crashes/accidents can have a similar effect upon the Rider... ...!

[RitterKreuz]

accidents like this shouldn't happen. and many times instructors are under pressure to get the student signed off before they are ready or comfortable for the sake of the school being able to save the student money.

save money or survive training?

save money or become a good proficient pilot?

the choice is obvious.

cross country flying is one of the main reasons a pilot obtains a license... therefore as an instructor i was always very strict regarding cross country lessons.

Any student of mine was always required to navigate from point A to B to C to D all four legs with only 5 tools at his disposal.... Sectional Chart, Plotter, Pencil, Stop Watch, and an E6B calculator.

the first few cross country flights the student was learning how to do this. How to orient the map, how to pick out check points, divert, recompute ground speed etc.

Once the student demonstrated proficiency with the stop watch and the chart, we moved on to radio navigation. position localization with crossing radials.... drawing on the chart where the radials cross and BINGO there you are type stuff.

once proficiency with cross country flying seemed mastered we would go up on a typical day of scattered afternoon showers. the student would literally have to re-plan his cross country around a shower and establish new courses, and fuel burn figures on the fly so to speak.

then came a short course on GPS.

on the final flight, the student would treat me as a passenger, all the way from briefing me on seatbelt use and door operation etc. i would only observe, offering no advice and giving them a task.

"where are you?" i would say

"right here" they would confidently point out a spot on the chart.

"prove it to me" i would say

hopefully at this point they would immediately go into using cross radials from a VOR to establish their position on the map.... almost every time, they did exactly that.

I was proud of that as an instructor, and they were proud of what they achieved as students.

but beyond all of that... as student pilots they had more skill, and competence in their pencils and charts than most Private pilots have in their "direct to" finger.

although tragic - i agree with Brett 100%... in almost every situation like this, sub standard instruction is to blame! and it is usually some fresh out of school, young buck instructor who is being pressured by the owner of some cheapo depot flight school to get someone finished up.

one of the best pieces of advice a new student can get - "you get what you pay for".

if you havnt paid a visit to at least 3 or 4 area flight schools, your not doing it right.

[spitfire boy]

accidents like this shouldn't happen. and many times instructors are under pressure to get the student signed off before they are ready or comfortable for the sake of the school being able to save the student money.

save money or survive training?

save money or become a good proficient pilot?

the choice is obvious.

cross country flying is one of the main reasons a pilot obtains a license... therefore as an instructor i was always very strict regarding cross country lessons.

Any student of mine was always required to navigate from point A to B to C to D all four legs with only 5 tools at his disposal.... Sectional Chart, Plotter, Pencil, Stop Watch, and an E6B calculator.

the first few cross country flights the student was learning how to do this. How to orient the map, how to pick out check points, divert, recompute ground speed etc.

Once the student demonstrated proficiency with the stop watch and the chart, we moved on to radio navigation. position localization with crossing radials.... drawing on the chart where the radials cross and BINGO there you are type stuff.

once proficiency with cross country flying seemed mastered we would go up on a typical day of scattered afternoon showers. the student would literally have to re-plan his cross country around a shower and establish new courses, and fuel burn figures on the fly so to speak.

then came a short course on GPS.

on the final flight, the student would treat me as a passenger, all the way from briefing me on seatbelt use and door operation etc. i would only observe, offering no advice and giving them a task.

"where are you?" i would say

"right here" they would confidently point out a spot on the chart.

"prove it to me" i would say

hopefully at this point they would immediately go into using cross radials from a VOR to establish their position on the map.... almost every time, they did exactly that.

I was proud of that as an instructor, and they were proud of what they achieved as students.

but beyond all of that... as student pilots they had more skill, and competence in their pencils and charts than most Private pilots have in their "direct to" finger.

although tragic - i agree with Brett 100%... in almost every situation like this, sub standard instruction is to blame! and it is usually some fresh out of school, young buck instructor who is being pressured by the owner of some cheapo depot flight school to get someone finished up.

one of the best pieces of advice a new student can get - "you get what you pay for".

if you havnt paid a visit to at least 3 or 4 area flight schools, your not doing it right.

I want you as an instructor!!!!



Seriously; even though I'm only 14, apparently it's perfectly alright to start learning now; you just can't get your license until you're 18. How cool is that?!

[Brett_Henderson]

Seriously; even though I'm only 14, apparently it's perfectly alright to start learning now

It's more than alright...

[RitterKreuz]

Brett's absolutely right.

start as soon as you can. I have given introductory flying lessons to plenty of 14 - 15 year old kids. their strategy was to fly just enough to retain information, and young people learn very fast!

once they were about 3 months out from their 16th birthday, the training ramped up to a 3 or 4 day a week deal.

and often they soloed on their 16th Birthday!

I have had two students who were both hard core FS pilots, they were doing constant airspeed climbs, standard rate turns, and could hold altitude relatively well... they knew what each instrument was telling them before we ever talked about the instruments.

one of them is attending Spartan in Tulsa, Oklahoma... the other will be graduating soon as an aeronautical engineer.

it really made my job easy!

the only 2 complaints i have about most students who come from a flight simulator back ground is

1. they have probably developed their own habits that even though they might work in FS wont work in a plane very well.

2. they tend to ignore the rudder more so than students who have had NO prior flying experience.

but those two complaints pale in comparison to the thousands of compliments.

its nice from an instructor's point of view to simply tell them to "take off, fly a heading of 060 degrees and do a constant speed climb to 4,500 feet." and even though its only like their 3rd or 4th lesson they can pretty much handle that without too much extra guidance  ;D

[spitfire boy]

[quote]Brett's absolutely right.

start as soon as you can. I have given introductory flying lessons to plenty of 14 - 15 year old kids. their strategy was to fly just enough to retain information, and young people learn very fast!

once they were about 3 months out from their 16th birthday, the training ramped up to a 3 or 4 day a week deal.

and often they soloed on their 16th Birthday!

I have had two students who were both hard core FS pilots, they were doing constant airspeed climbs, standard rate turns, and could hold altitude relatively well... they knew what each instrument was telling them before we ever talked about the instruments.

one of them is attending Spartan in Tulsa, Oklahoma... the other will be graduating soon as an aeronautical engineer.

it really made my job easy!

the only 2 complaints i have about most students who come from a flight simulator back ground is

1. they have probably developed their own habits that even though they might work in FS wont work in a plane very well.

2. they tend to ignore the rudder more so than students who have had NO prior flying experience.

but those two complaints pale in comparison to the thousands of compliments.

its nice from an instructor's point of view to simply tell them to "take off, fly a heading of 060 degrees and do a constant speed climb to 4,500 feet." and even though its only like their 3rd or 4th lesson they can pretty much handle that without too much extra guidance

[RitterKreuz]

looking forward to it.

best of luck! and dont be afraid to shop around if you have the option.

[Chris_F]

accidents like this shouldn't happen. and many times instructors are under pressure to get the student signed off before they are ready or comfortable for the sake of the school being able to save the student money.

save money or survive training?

save money or become a good proficient pilot?

the choice is obvious.

What I don't understand is how a student can allow themselves to get in to a situation like this.  To me it seems obvious that if I'm going up in a plane solo that I have nothing but myself and the machine around me to rely on to keep me safe.  And I don't really trust the machine around me.  So if I'm going solo cross country I'm going to make darned sure I'm comfortable with at least three different means of navigation before I allow myself to take off (I guess examples those would be dead reconing, radios, compass and stopwatch, GPS, etc).  And if I don't feel comfortable then I'm not taking off regardless of what instructor tells me I'm ready.  Heck, I don't even go hiking without a good map and at least two working compasses.

But what do I know.  I've never held the real controls of a real plane before.  My "flying" is 100% simulator based...

[RitterKreuz]

human psychology.

people frequently fail to speak up when they are nervous or scared or intimidated by something.

[C]

What I don't understand is how a student can allow themselves to get in to a situation like this.  To me it seems obvious that if I'm going up in a plane solo that I have nothing but myself and the machine around me to rely on to keep me safe.  And I don't really trust the machine around me.  So if I'm going solo cross country I'm going to make darned sure I'm comfortable with at least three different means of navigation before I allow myself to take off (I guess examples those would be dead reconing, radios, compass and stopwatch, GPS, etc).  And if I don't feel comfortable then I'm not taking off regardless of what instructor tells me I'm ready.  Heck, I don't even go hiking without a good map and at least two working compasses.

Often the key to successful navigation, be it visually or using some type of radio aids (be it VFR or IFR) is half an hour's study of your intended route, key features, possible alternate etc, before you even get anywhere near the aircraft.

The 5 Ps: Prior Preperation Prevents P*** Poor Performance.

[Hagar]

[quote][quote]

What I don't understand is how a student can allow themselves to get in to a situation like this.

[C]

The 5 Ps: Prior Preperation Prevents P*** Poor Performance.

That's 6.

Pedantically, yes!

Slightly off-topic but I don't believe they've found Steve Fosset yet.

Nope. It appears they've found several "new" wrecks too, some dating from the war...

Big sky out there, over a quite a big country... :-? :-/

[Hagar]

The 5 Ps: Prior Preperation Prevents P*** Poor Performance.

That's 6.

Pedantically, yes!

Pedant is my middle name.

Slightly off-topic but I don't believe they've found Steve Fosset yet.

Nope. It appears they've found several "new" wrecks too, some dating from the war...

Big sky out there, over a quite a big country... :-? :-/

My point exactly. Ironically Mr Fosset is the last person one would expect to disappear without trace. It's easy to criticise but proof it can happen to the most experienced.

[freedomhays]

Immokalee Regional Airport,

[Chris_F]

My point exactly. Ironically Mr Fosset is the last person one would expect to disappear without trace. It's easy to criticise but proof it can happen to the most experienced.

It's a risky endeavor, this flying stuff.  But so is leaving your house to get the mail (could get hit by a car, ya know).  Even though the verdict is unknown on the Fosset thing it's unlikely he made a navigational blunder like this person did.  "It" can happen to anyone but this particular "it" is only going to happen to the unprepared.