Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

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Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

Postby RitterKreuz » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:30 pm

Airline Pilot facts:  :-/


Almost Every Time you see an Airline Pilot, they're not getting paid.

When you see an Airline pilot going through the same security you go through, he's not being paid.

When you see an Airline pilot walking in the terminal, he's not being paid.

When you see an Airline pilot at the gate pulling up paper work, planning the flight, and conferring with the agent, he's not being paid.

When you see an Airline pilot walking around the aircraft doing a preflight inspection, conferring with fuelers he's not being paid.

When you board the aircraft and look in the cockpit and see the Airline pilots setting up the aircraft, they're not getting paid.

When you land safely at your destination and walk off the aircraft and see the pilots shutting down the aircraft, they're not being paid.

When you see a pilot waiting for a ride to a hotel for the night, he's not being paid.

The only time the pilot of your aircraft is getting paid is when you DON'T see him...when he's locked behind the cockpit door as you push back from the gate. Every thing else he does until this point is for free, for no wages. no compensation... Nothing!

Airline Pilot Pay starts when the door closes and the brake is released.

When the door closes an electronic signal is sent to the company "clocking" the pilots in. The pilots are then paid until the next electronic signal gets sent when the door opens at the destination.

At most airlines it is against company policy to close the door and "drop the brake" earlier than 5 minutes before departure time.

The average airline pilot is at work for 12- 14 hours per day, yet gets paid for less than 6 - 7 hours.

The average airline pilot who is on "reserve" is required to go sit at the airport as a standby pilot in case another pilot calls in sick... he is required to be there ready to fly at a moments notice for a full 8 hour shift... yet is only paid for 3 hours of that duty.

The average airline pilot is away from home, at work, for 70+ hours a week, yet gets paid for only 15 to 18 hours per week.

Most pilots schedules have them working 15-18 days or more a month...that means they are not at home 50% - 60% the month. thats 40 - 50 % of the month is spent in different time zones, in low cost hotels, trying to get as much sleep as possible during a 7 hour overnight.

Holidays, weekends, birthdays, anniversaries, summer vacations, typically not at home.

A large majority of Pilots have spent 8 years or more flying in the military, risking their lives in the defense of our nation only to join the airlines for wages most people wouldn't accept in the civilian world.

Civilian trained pilots have spent a minimum of around $50,000 to acquire the training that qualifies them for a Regional Airline job.

The average airline pilot with less than 15 years seniority with any particular company is paid a wage LESS than the poverty level.

If a pilot with 15 years seniority at one company decides to go to another company, his seniority and pay starts over at year one!

When you see an airline pilot walking in the terminal there is a fair chance he qualifies for food stamps.

Most pilots do not attain the required experience level to be hired by an airline until they are well passed the age of 30. The average age of a new hire airline pilot is 32.

Airline pilots are subject to random drug and alcohol testing, any time they are at work. Fail it, even if the results are a false positive, they lose their job.

Airline pilots are required to undergo rigorous re-training and certification every 6 months, at which time they are allowed one strike -  if failed they lose their jobs, licenses and livelihood.

Airline pilots are required to submit to random government "Line checks" during which their license could be revoked and livelihood destroyed.

Airline pilots are required to submit to a government medical examination every 6 months (Captains) and 12 months as First Officers. Year after year. If any abnormal condition is discovered regardless of age, their career is over. All the time and money invested in becoming a pilot - wasted!

An airline pilot is one of a few professions where you work behind a bullet proof door.

Like doctors and nurses Airline Pilots are responsible for the lives of hundreds of people a day, with any small mistake in performance resulting in the death of their customers and themselves, and the financial destruction of the company.

How many of your jobs require you to fight your way through thunderstorms, rain, snow, ice and turbulence, day and night, year after year? No mistakes allowed? The excuse " I had a bad day at work" never accepted? Bad days at work result in damage to company property, injury to personnel and passengers or worse - death.

Many pilots volunteer to be trained as Federal Flight Deck Officers, and carry weapons to defend their aircraft, crew and passengers. (yes they are out there) They maintain their proficiency and qualifications twice a year on their own time and money.

Airline pilot pay scales and hours worked are usually published to the public by absurdly overcompensated Airline Exec's who are waging a PR campaign against their Pilot Unions and trying to justify their own greedy bonus's and draconian wage and pension cuts.

Airline passengers just love this war between management and unions since they don't care if their airplane is flown by the most poorly paid inexperienced pilot, as long as the ticket is cheap
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Re: Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

Postby RitterKreuz » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:31 pm

posted at another forum - thought i'd share it
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Re: Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

Postby dcunning30 » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:01 pm

Please excuse my ignorance, but if the average airline pilot qualifies for food stamps, they why be an airline pilot?
Last edited by dcunning30 on Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

Postby RitterKreuz » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:00 pm

earnings PRIOR to the first 10 - 15 years with a company can be that low. especially on a regional airline level but it gets better as you get more senior.

and i will tell you that you would be amazed at the number of student pilots out there who will say "Heck i would do that job for next to nothing, and these guys are complaining about 19 grand a year?!" (airline management officials love to hear some of you students say that by the way)  then they come and do the job for next to nothing and washout in the first 12 months because they think it sucks. its simply not worth it to some folks.

the attrition rate of airline and regional airline pilots is simply staggering.

BUT some pilots hang in there because they know that by the time they suffer through the first decade or so they can move into larger equipment making more money.

those pie in the sky airline jobs where you can earn 200 thousand dollars a year flying to Hawaii 4 days a month ARE still out there but they are few and far between, EVERYONE wants them, and to get that job you have to accrue a TON of seniority, and if that means living below the poverty line for a decade or two to get there there are a lot of guys willing to do so.

You can find the real pay scales for airline pilots for any company at

http://www.willflyforfood.cc/airlinepilotpay/

but keep in mind that these are your hourly wage PER FLIGHT HOUR this does not include the thousands of WORK HOURS per year that you ARE NOT paid for. ie. preflight and postflight duties etc

as an example: i am required - REQUIRED - to be at work 45 minutes prior to departure, and im REQUIRED to be in my seat 20 minutes prior to departure but the company is NOT REQUIRED to pay me until 5 minutes prior to departure. how does that work??

another example, an airline pilot scheduled for a 2 hour layover in base is required to stay near the plane, but is paid nothing for this. there are literally thousands of hours per year of work related duties that pilots are NOT paid for.

and many of the expenses such as medical examinations, uniforms, flight accessories etc are not covered by the company.

so the argument is not about being paid MORE PER HOUR... its about being paid for the hours they are required to work. does that make sense???

but on the other side of the coin a big news story came out that the executives at american airlines received bonuses that EXCEEDED the 2006 profit margin. the lowest of these bonuses was about a half a million dollars!

WHAT?! explain how that makes business sense!

"why not do something else and fly for fun?"...

So lets say you go to 4 years of school to be an airline pilot, your student loans exceed $50K by a fair margin, the only real trade you know due to the degree plan is flying. and those loans have to be paid. you cant just throw your hands up in the air, quit your airline job and go sell real estate - at least not without getting certified to sell real estate and investing more money and time into securing employment in that field. a lot of pilots spend their days off learning a new trade such as real estate sales, or take a night class to learn business management to open their own business. Once the classes are completed and they are ready to move on, their resignation letter is turned in. this is what accounts for a fair amount of attrition. pilots going on to do other things and fly for fun... many ask themselves that question and make it happen.

Personally i enjoy the work i do for a living despite not being paid for over 40% of it! LOL but i promise you this... if i knew of another line of work that was as much fun, and it didnt require me to go get another 4 years of school under my belt - IM THERE! id love to have a job with good pay and benefits that would support just for fun family flying and would let me stay in my own bed every night and it no longer be an awkward moment when i see my wife after a week of trips... sign me up, but for now i dont know of anything that would allow me to do that. and just like me - many more feel the same way.
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Re: Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

Postby beaky » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:28 pm

You forgot one:
When you're stuck in the plane on the ramp for half a day, the crew is stuck, too.
And they're probably not getting paid.

;D
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Re: Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

Postby visualchaosfx » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:55 pm

I guess becoming an airline pilot is alot harder than I thought. I think I'll just stick with flight simulation.
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Re: Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

Postby Mobius » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:05 pm

Good ol' airlines, screwing everybody it seems. :P ;)


Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

It's weird, I always think of this phrase whenever I go flying.  It just fits so well...:)
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Re: Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

Postby visualchaosfx » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:19 pm

Yeah but I bet you airline pilots bring home more than $13,000 a year. Yeah thats what happens when you live in small bleepin town in Michigan lol.
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Re: Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

Postby RitterKreuz » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:33 pm

rotty, you'd be surprised to find out that when the cabin door closes and they taxi out and then get delayed for 2 hours on the ramp the pilots are technically ON the clock... one of the few "good" things about how we are paid.

but now for the downside to it... when you are delayed for 2 hours and it cuts into your already short overnight... you get in at 11pm instead of 9pm for example and you are scheduled to go out at 5am... usually the company will give you "compensated rest"... and how much compensated rest do they give you to make up for the 2 hour delay? the most i have ever had on a 2 hour delay was 15 minutes of extra time at the overnight

FIFTEEN MINUTES  >:(

if it comes to having a choice between sitting on the ramp earning money for an extra 2 hours or getting to the overnight and actually getting some kind of rest... most crew would go for the R&R.

and dont even get me started on continuous duty overnights where you have to sleep on the plane!!!  >:(
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Re: Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

Postby Chris_F » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:25 pm

"An airline pilot is one of a few professions where you work behind a bullet proof door."

I don't want to tell you how to fly your plane, but shouldn't you be IN FRONT of the bullet proof door?  Or do you usually fly tail first?

:)

A friend of mine's father flew for many years at United.  I don't know how much he made, but he flew relatively small planes for most of his career (eventually flying 737's).  They were generous enough to invite my wife and I to their 3500 square foot home overlooking the ocean.  We had a wonderful time barbequing on their beach and sailing in their boat.  Wonderful people.  I don't want to sound jellous or bitter about their obvious wealth (I did have to drooled over his 1970's era 911) because I know he earned every penny of it.  I just wonder how he managed to do so on food stamps.  Perhaps he's a relic of a bygone era when pilots were paid well.  Perhaps he's unique.  Perhaps he got lucky in the stock market or lottery.  Still, he somehow mangaed to make a comfortable life for himself and his family and the only income source I was aware of was his job as pilot.
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Re: Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

Postby Jakemaster » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:42 pm

rotty, you'd be surprised to find out that when the cabin door closes and they taxi out and then get delayed for 2 hours on the ramp the pilots are technically ON the clock... one of the few "good" things about how we are paid.

but now for the downside to it... when you are delayed for 2 hours and it cuts into your already short overnight... you get in at 11pm instead of 9pm for example and you are scheduled to go out at 5am... usually the company will give you "compensated rest"... and how much compensated rest do they give you to make up for the 2 hour delay? the most i have ever had on a 2 hour delay was 15 minutes of extra time at the overnight

FIFTEEN MINUTES  >:(

if it comes to having a choice between sitting on the ramp earning money for an extra 2 hours or getting to the overnight and actually getting some kind of rest... most crew would go for the R&R.

and dont even get me started on continuous duty overnights where you have to sleep on the plane!!!  >:(



That sucks.  But seriously, where would you rather be: the cockpit of a plane or a cubicle?  
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Re: Yo ho yo ho a pilots life for me

Postby RitterKreuz » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:32 pm

how much does the cubicle job pay?  ;)
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