So did the Tu-154 and the Boeing 757 over Southern Germany in 2002.
I was about to post the same thing.
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Flight Simulator and other chat
by C » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:42 am
So did the Tu-154 and the Boeing 757 over Southern Germany in 2002.
by Nexus » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:50 am
by C » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:30 am
regarding the TU-154 and DHL 757 crash. TCAS adviced correct escape envelopes for both aircrafts (descend resp climb for the other aircraft)
It was an ATC error, who made both aircrafts descend (or was it climb?...) so their flightpaths converged.
TCAS was not the problem.
by expat » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:35 am
regarding the TU-154 and DHL 757 crash. TCAS adviced correct escape envelopes for both aircrafts (descend resp climb for the other aircraft)
It was an ATC error, who made both aircrafts descend (or was it climb?...) so their flightpaths converged.
TCAS was not the problem.
People Eating Tasty Animals.
by Mees » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:42 pm
by Nexus » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:05 pm
We did not say TCAS was the problem. However if it is not switched to the correct setting, it is of no help in a collision situation. You have two settings, TA-Traffic Advisory and TA/RA-Traffic Advisory with Resolution Advisory. If you are only on TA you will get no climb or sink advisories.
However, I would put my money on it working, but human input knowing better.....as usual.
Matt
by expat » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:55 pm
I just ran upstairs to post this, to let you know its the first 737NG to crash....
People Eating Tasty Animals.by Fly2e » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:30 pm
Jet pilots from LI ordered to stay in Brazil
Two executive jet pilots from Long Island have been ordered by a judge to stay in Brazil while authorities investigate whether they flew at the wrong altitude and caused a midair collision with an airliner that crashed into the Amazon jungle.
A Brazilian newspaper reported that the pilots' Legacy jet, which was carrying seven Americans, disobeyed an order by the control tower to descend to a lower altitude just before coming into contact with Gol airlines Flight 1907. All 155 people aboard the commercial jet died.
A judge in Mato Grosso state ordered federal police to seize the passports of pilot Joseph Lepore, 42, of Bay Shore, who is certified by the Federal Aviation Administration as a flight instructor, and co-pilot Jan Palladino, 34, of Westhampton Beach, "as a result of the doubts surrounding the case and the emergence of indications that the accident was caused by the Legacy," Mato Grosso Justice Department press spokeswoman Maria Barbant told the Associated Press yesterday.
She said the two were not arrested but "just prevented from leaving the country, at least until we know exactly what happened" in Brazil's deadliest air disaster.
The daily O Globo newspaper said the Legacy flew at 37,000 feet to the capital, Brasilia, but then ignored an order to descend to 36,000 feet to continue its flight to the Amazon city of Manaus. The Gol jetliner was flying at 37,000 feet from Manaus to Brasilia en route to Rio de Janeiro. The damaged executive jet safely landed at a nearby air force base.
The pilots, who have been questioned by Mato Grosso investigators, were brought to Rio de Janeiro yesterday for routine physical tests. They were not injured in the incident.
The Legacy had been making its inaugural flight to the United States after being purchased by the charter firm ExcelAire from the plane's manufacturer, Embraer. ExcelAire is based at Long Island MacArthur Airport.
Brazilian Air force commander Gen. Luis Carlos Bueno said the Gol flight, a brand-new Boeing 737-800, had a flight plan for 37,000 feet and the Legacy jet was authorized to fly at 36,000 feet, according to an interview Tuesday with Brazil's government news service Agencia Brasil. He said only an investigation of the planes' black boxes could clarify the cause of the accident.
Christine Negroni, an investigator for the aviation law firm Kreindler & Kreindler of New York, told the Associated Press that under international guidelines the Legacy should not have been at an odd-numbered altitude because it was heading northwest.
"All westbound flights fly at even numbers with 1,000 feet separation. Eastbound flights fly at odd numbers, same 1,000 separation," she said. "Since the American pilots were flying northwest, they should not have been at 37,000."
Investigators began examining voice and data recorders recovered from the jetliner Tuesday, but the National Civil Aviation Agency said one of the voice recorders was missing data. "This unit is essential for analysis," the agency said on its Web site. It said military units were searching for missing parts.
Investigators will also look at why the pilots weren't alerted by special onboard equipment designed to avoid collisions. The air force said both jets were equipped with a Traffic Collision Avoidance System, or TCAS, which monitors other planes and sets off an alarm if they get too close.
The Gol plane crashed deep in the Amazon jungle in Mato Grosso state, some 1,100 miles northwest of Rio de Janeiro, killing all 149 passengers and six crew members.
There appeared to be only one American on the flight -- Douglas Hancock, 35, of Missouri. He was in Mato Grosso for business and was returning to Rio de Janeiro where he lived, his father, Paul Hancock, told the Southeast Missourian newspaper.
Bueno said about 100 bodies were found within a half-mile of the wreckage and were flown to the coroner's office in Brasilia for identification. He said rescue workers would have to open more clearings in the dense jungle to try to recover the rest.
The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board said it was sending a team of investigators, who would be joined by representatives from the Federal Aviation Administration and Boeing Co. The U.S. agencies were involved because the Gol plane was manufactured in the United States and the smaller jet was registered there.
ExcelAire has never had an accident since the company was founded in 1985, the FAA said. The private jet charter and aircraft management company employs more than 90 people.
ExcelAire spokeswoman Lisa Hendrickson said Lepore had more than 8,000 hours of flight time and had been a commercial pilot since 1984. Paladino has more than 6,400 hours of flight time and has been a commercial pilot since 1996. Both pilots had the FAA rating to fly the Embraer Legacy, and both were rated as captains on the flight, she said.
In a statement Tuesday, ExcelAire said "the Brazilian-made Legacy in the ExcelAire fleet was flying from Sao Paulo to Manaus on its inaugural flight from Embraer, where it was manufactured. While in flight, the Legacy suffered a jolt to the aircraft, and noticed the left winglet was gone, along with damage to the leading edge" of the wing.
A neighbor of Lepore said "he's a wonderful man," with a wife, Ellen, and two young children and whose parents live with the family.
by expat » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:26 pm
Setting TCAS to TA-RA is printed in every airline checklist prior to entering the departing runway.
People Eating Tasty Animals.by eniranjanrao » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:32 am
by osvep » Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:28 am
by expat » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:02 am
People Eating Tasty Animals.by Fly2e » Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:53 am
On Thursday, attorney Jose Carlos Dias -- a former Brazilian national justice minister hired to represent the ExcelAire of Ronkonkoma and its two Long Island pilots who were flying the executive jet that who survived the collision -- broke the silence maintained by the company and its pilots about specifics of the collision.
Dias responded to Brazilian officials who contended that Joseph Lepore, 42, of Bay Shore, and Jan Paladino, 34, of Westhampton Beach, had turned off the transponder that gave the position of their Embraer Legacy 600 jet, possibly to try stunt maneuvers with the plane on its maiden flight. Dias told Globo TV, "They had no reason to do that." He called the allegation "nonsense."
Brazilian officials previously have said the pilots had told investigators that they had not disabled the system and it was working before impact.
Dias elaborated in a story in the O Globo newspaper, saying the pilots had already flown the same kind of airplane in the United States. "It is inconceivable that they would behave so mischievously in the air. ... This doesn't match their character, because they are very serious and competent."
A judge earlier this week ordered the pilots to turn over their passports while authorities investigate whether they flew at the wrong altitude, causing the collision with Gol Airlines Flight 1907 at 37,000 feet. Officials said the Legacy plane should have been at 36,000. Everyone on Flight 1907 died and all seven people on the Legacy were uninjured.
Dias addressed that issue as well. "The altitude question is controversial," he said. "They [the pilots] said that they were on the correct flight-plan altitude."
The lawyer was quoted by the O Estado de Sao Paulo newspaper as saying, "They were following the flight plan strictly. When approaching Brasilia, they contacted the control tower, to make sure that they should lower their altitude, but they couldn't communicate. But I don't want to attribute responsibility to anybody." He didn't elaborate on whether they changed altitude anyway.
O Globo reported that Lt. Brigadier General Paulo Roberto Cardoso Vilarinho, director of the air traffic control system, said that investigators had stated that controllers in Brasilia tried to contact the Legacy seven times in more than one hour and only made contact after the impact. He added that shortly after the executive jet passed Brasilia, controllers noticed the transponder on the jet was not operating, and it began to operate again after the collision.
Vilarinho stated that the Brazilian airliner was never notified that the smaller plane was in the area with a transponder that was not operating but did not explain why. "I don't want to speculate because I don't have the data," he said.
Vilarinho also said tests so far had ruled out any malfunction of Brazil's air traffic control system. He said that after flight controllers lost transponder and radio contact with the Legacy, they were still able to track the plane's course but not its altitude by radar.
Burson-Marsteller, an international public relations firm hired by ExcelAire, said the pilots were staying at an undisclosed location in Rio de Janeiro and would not be publicly commenting on the case.
by C » Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:27 am
by osvep » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:09 am
Care you post a link to this "no collision supersonic airflow" theory then? However, as we have one aircraft residing in a large hole in the ground and another with a missing piece of wing that managed to land, plus a statement from the Legacy pilot to the effect, the 737 can out of know where, I know what I would put my money on.
Matt
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