Enjoy

[Flying Trucker]

Good afternoon all...

[specter177]

Rag and tubes is just that... A plane with a metal frame covered in fabric. Wood and fabric would describe a wooden constructed aircraft.

[Hagar]

Now I read that some de Havilland DH.60 Moths were constructed this way.
-wooden frame covered by plywood with fabric controls
That does not really make them a true rag and tube aircraft or does it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monocoque

The original DH.60 Moth was of all-wood construction. The fuselage was a plywood box covered with doped fabric. However, the wings & tail surfaces were of traditional construction with wooden spars & ribs covered with doped fabric. The DH.60M "Metal Moth" had a fabric covered steel tube fuselage. I suppose it could be called rag & tube. This was the fore-runner of the legendary Tiger Moth.

[Flying Trucker]

Good evening all....

Well your logic is interesting specter177....now would an aircraft with a solid metal frame versus a hollow metal frame still be a rag and tube?

Let's look at a bomber from World War One "WW1".
Would the size of the aircraft and the two or more engines support a hollow metal tube construction?  Not sure myself, I would think the structure would be made of solid stamped metal to make it stronger than let's say a hollow metal tube welded together.  I don't know...just my thought.

So let me think about this now, to be truly rag and tube the metal frame must be hollow like a water pipe...right?  Help me out here now....

Hi Doug...dang glad you jumped in because I need your expertise.
The DH.60M Metal Moth was for service in the colonies if I remember correctly and it makes no sense to me.  Canada taking our climate which changes four times a year, would the plywood construction not have been just as good and kept the cost of repairs down.  The aircraft must have spent a lot of time on skis and floats, hard on a fabric covered steel tube fuselage I would think.

Just my thoughts folks...

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

[specter177]

I don't recall any non-all metal aircraft having a non-tube or wood construction.

[Hagar]

[quote]Hi Doug...dang glad you jumped in because I need your expertise. The DH.60M Metal Moth was for service in the colonies if I remember correctly and it makes no sense to me.

[Flying Trucker]

Goodly morning all...

Thanks for the link Doug.

[H]

[quote]Let's look at a bomber from World War One "WW1".
Would the size of the aircraft and the two or more engines support a hollow metal tube construction?

[Flying Trucker]

Hi "H"...

I wonder what kind of a metal alloy they used during the First World War and into the 1930s?
I am sure it corroded over time.

I understand what you are saying about the metal hollow tube being more durable but when you take a solid metal bar the same lenght as a metal hollow tube/pipe and place holes in it of different sizes/shapes does that not give the metal bar the same durability with less weight?

I have often heard discussions at the local bugsmasher fields on this.
Wood rots.
Metal corrodes.

So what makes a better wing spar for a light general purpose aircraft?
I wonder if it comes down to price as a lot of composite homebuilt aircraft offer a choice of wood or metal spars.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

[beaky]

I've always assumed that "tube" meant exactly that- cylindrical stock. I suppose that technically some of the very early kites that used bamboo in the frame would fall in that category...

[Flying Trucker]

Hi Sean...

Thanks for jumping in.  You brought something up I completely forgot about yet the old girl has all kinds of it around the wigwam staring me in the face.

Bamboo:  Woody tropical grass having hollow woody stems; mature canes used for construction and furniture.

and

Wicker:  Slender flexible branches or twigs (especially of willow or some canes); used for wickerwork.

The early aircraft seats were made of Wicker, very comfortable as well.  Hot Air Balloon baskets are usually made of Wicker as well.

Bamboo...not sure about it yet Sean...someone is going to have to jump in here to help out on that one.   :)

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug 

[Hagar]

[quote]Goodly morning all...

Thanks for the link Doug.

[Flying Trucker]

Thanks for jumping in Doug...

Much appreciated....

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

[beaky]

[quote]Hi Sean...

Thanks for jumping in.

[Flying Trucker]

Interesting Link Sean...thanks...

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug