Choosing which firearm to buy.

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Postby Scorpiоn » Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:54 am

Can you own a P-90 anywhere? :o Not even in Texas I think! :o
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Re: ~

Postby Woodlouse2002 » Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:34 am

Can you own a P-90 anywhere? :o Not even in Texas I think! :o

I Don't think they're for sale on the civilian market. :P
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Re: Choosing which firearm to buy.

Postby H » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:59 am

The topic seemed to be about simple marksmanship and we've covered slingshots (I was fairly good with one) to something short of a one-man explosives factory and, heaven forbid, live targets. If you can't get a target 30 feet away with a grenade or 200 feet away with a bazooka, why bother ::) (OK, I do have a slight scar below my eye from the safety catch because I had to modify my aiming with a 9mm Mauser - also hit dead center in the target, though).
I was 5 when I first fired a .22 rifle. The stock was too long for me to set the butt aginst my shoulder so I learned to aim with it in my armpit (the reason for my scar -- a bit more kick with the 9mm). An M16, although more so than a .22, doesn't have quite so much kick so I did quite well on the rifle range (not all dead center but not a shot missed).
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Re: Choosing which firearm to buy.

Postby Brett_Henderson » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:10 am

I would personally get a Ruger 10/.22 for a beginner.  I know its a smaller round, but the rifle costs about $150 at most and the ammo is dirt cheap-it is the best way to learn.


That's excellent advice. The Ruger 10/22 is well made, accurate and very affordable to practice with. Unless it's abused, it's the type of rifle that can end up serving your great grandson.

For serious, long-range marksmanship, there are so many suitable rifles and calibers, it's really about how much you can spend and whether or not you ever decide to take up the equally rewarding hobby; reloading your own ammunition.

Ruger also makes some incredibly accurate, affordable, center-fire rifles..

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdEnlView?model=7886

Thw M77 MKII has a solid, precise bolt/reciever.. better than rifles costing three times as much and a heavy barrel (reduces oscillation (a barrel actually goes through a sine-wave oscillation before the bullet exits.. and if it's not minimized and predictable can significantly alter the trajectory)).

The minimun standard for a target rifle is; "one minute of angle @ 100 meters" .. which equates to 1" @ 100 meters between impact centers. The M77 MKII in calber .243, with a good scope is capable of much better. Three shot "clover leaf" patterns are the norm. If you take the time to experiment and find a load/bullet combo that suits your particular rifle.. an afternoon of shooting will yield a few 3-shot groups through one hole.

Handgun marksmanship is a whole different arena. Since most people will expect their target handgun to double as their home defense tool ,  there are really only 4 caliber choices: 9mm,   38/.357,  .40S&W and   .45ACP .

44Magnum and 10mm are a little too much for the average person, unless they're willing to practice regularly. Recoil is substantial and over-penetration is a concern.

If you don't plan on practicing regularly; I'd recommend a 38/357 revolver. Revolvers are inherently safer than auto-loaders.. rarely malfunction and a 38/357 has the flexibility of using .38special ammuntion for target and practice (light recoil and inexpensive).. and .357Magnum ammunition for home defense.

I'm not a fan of 9mm at all. It and most of the guns chambered for it are poor choices for marksmanship. And as a self-defense round, it's a notorious flop. There aren't but a few police departments still using 9mm. All that experiment with it end up switching to .45ACP or .40S&W as soon as it becomes economically feasible.

If you DO intent to keep up on your proficiency and choose a semi-auto pistol; I'd advise a "single action only". To me.. the whole purpuse of a semi-auto pistol is to get away from long, heavy trigger-pull (like a revolver (unless you take the time to "cock" it for every shot (the exact thing the semi-auto was designed to eliminate)). The best choice there (in my opinion) is a Browning Hi-Power in .40S&W, but it's rather pricey; as is my second choice, a Colt Government Model in .45ACP. Springfield Armory makes an excellent Colt clone and is reasonably priced.

Consider used firearms from reputable dealers until you settle on a choice. You can always trade up.
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Re: Choosing which firearm to buy.

Postby Fozzer » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:18 am

The last rifle I was unfortunately forced to carry in the British Army was a bolt action Lee-Enfield .303 Rifle, in 1955...
I'll tell you what...I was really glad to get rid of it....
...and the Army.... ;)...!
The thought of damage that firing a gun of any sort could do to anything that it was aimed at, never did fill me with a feeling of overwhelming enjoyment.... ;)...!

I think I would rather take up fishing...
...or Train Spotting...LOL...;D...!

Cheers Lads...;D...!

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Re: Choosing which firearm to buy.

Postby Woodlouse2002 » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:23 am

The problem with the Ruger 10/22 is the magazines. They work fine when new but when you start using proper target ammunition that is generally slightly waxy (such as Eley for example) it isn't long before the magazines start to gum up and you start getting stoppages. It is however relatively simple to take the magazine apart to clean though it is a bit of a bugger winding the spring up again.

Another thing I don't like about them (and this is just personal preference) is the trigger. In my experience it's very difficult to gently fire it as the trigger always seems to withstand a certain amount of pressure before suddenly firing.

I would still never recommend a semi auto if target shooting and accuracy are you main concerns though.
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Re: Choosing which firearm to buy.

Postby Brett_Henderson » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:35 am

Yeah.. most "out of the box" triggers need a little fine-tuning.. especially the 10/22..

And you're right..  nothing is better than than a bolt-action (single-shot is even better) for accuracy..
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Re: Choosing which firearm to buy.

Postby Woodlouse2002 » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:44 am

Therefore Loafing Smurf, what you really want is a .450 cal Martini Henry. ;D
Last edited by Woodlouse2002 on Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ~

Postby Omag 2.0 » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:33 am

I Don't think they're for sale on the civilian market. :P


Oooh, they are ... perhaps it's not exactly a legal market, but still...  ;D
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Re: ~

Postby Woodlouse2002 » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:41 am

[quote]

Oooh, they are ... perhaps it's not exactly a legal market, but still...
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Re: Choosing which firearm to buy.

Postby RichieB16 » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:52 am

Another thing I don't like about them (and this is just personal preference) is the trigger. In my experience it's very difficult to gently fire it as the trigger always seems to withstand a certain amount of pressure before suddenly firing.

I agree that the trigger pull is a little overly heavy when you buy them new-but for a beginner I don't think that is a big deal.
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Re: Choosing which firearm to buy.

Postby ozzy72 » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:53 am

I was unfortunately forced to carry in the British Army was a bolt action Lee-Enfield .303 Rifle

And I had to use them to learn rifle drill as an air cadet in the 80's ;D
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Re: Choosing which firearm to buy.

Postby Woodlouse2002 » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:13 am

[quote]
I'm sure there are a couple legally private owned ones.
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Postby Scorpiоn » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:47 pm

I have to go with Woody on this one.  The P-90 looks much too dangerous to be privately owned.  That and it looks like it was recently made (AKA after 1983).
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Re: ~

Postby Woodlouse2002 » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:01 pm

[quote]I have to go with Woody on this one.
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