Flight diverted to KBGR.

[Hyperion2]

All these "if" scenarios are pointless.  The only fact that matters  is that there HASN'T been another attempt.  

[Craig.]

and that attitude is basically hiding your head in the sand. Its those "IF" scenarios that have to be considered.Facts ,are only useful for the past. Count on that and you get relaxed and thats when they get you again.

[Hagar]

All these "if" scenarios are pointless.

Ah, but you must consider every possibility. Nobody knows how, if or when "they" will strike again. The way I see it, their objective has already been achieved without them doing anything else.

[Hyperion2]

That's my point.  We do need to be prepared for all scenarios, and we need to intervene to prevent them from happening.  But to say that we should just assume the guy on the watch list isn't the same guy would be more dangerous than any other pre-emptive measure we could take.

[Craig.]

Yes, but you cant keep turning flights back, people are sympathetic to the reasons behind it, but there is only so much the public will put up with and thats foreigners and the American public, because remember they too are returning home on these flights. What the security agencies need to do instead of trying to act like they know it all, is ask for help from airlines and from various world security agenceys who have had decades of experience, to create a system that allows lists to be handed over checked and green lighted all before the plane leaves the gate. It is possible with a little work.

[Hyperion2]

Not sure where you're at geographically, Craig, but in the US there's no way "they" would let ANYONE do that sort of screening prior to departure.  ("They" meaning a particular wing of the political scene in the US.)

I agree with you completely, there's gotta be a better way, but until "they" concede that it's not a violation of their civil rights, it'll never happen, and we'll have to keep turning back flights.

[Craig.]

politicians can whine about civil rights all they want, fact of the matter is this info is handed over already, how do you think these names turn up on the watch lists. All they need to do is speed the process up a little. That could mean checking in an hour earlier and closing check in an hour earlier to give them time to send the passenger lists to be checked. Or just improving the system. Ii'd like to think they wouldn't let me sit on a plane with a potential terrorist for 5 hours before realising it. Thats pleanty of time to do the damage.

UK geographically.

[Souichiro]

The thing that might be more disturbing is the fact that  these people who are on the black list in the U.S.  are allowed to fly anywhere else in the world! A global black list would seem the only option to me.

[Hyperion2]

I agree...but some people think (incorrectly, IMO) that you can't ask for information like that.  (The whole 'big brother' theory.)

Personally I'll tell them anything they want to know if it means I can bring my wife somewhere without having to worry about getting there alive.

[Souichiro]

Ask for information? People have to give up names and such for tickets don't they? There is also the passport check. Input the Blacklist into the system and when a name and birth date comply bingo.  The choice to me is simple if you do not cooperate the you do not fly! But then again I am not a terrorist (at least not yet)

And no Craig I am not saying that you are a terrorist

[Hagar]

[quote]I agree...but some people think (incorrectly, IMO) that you can't ask for information like that.

[Craig.]

LOL i sure hope i'm not, news to me at least. That and the US gave me a student visa which required a few background checks nothing major, but i am happy to co-operate. It makes it simpler than the hard way, as i have nothing to hide i have nothing to worry about.
Most people dont realise, once you book tickets to the US your name credit card details address and various other bits of info are transmitted to us intelligence after you check in. This is where they cross referance the names to the no fly lists.

[Hyperion2]

I'm not sure to be honest...I've never been anything but a US citizen.  lol

Any time any sort of national identification process is even discussed "they" (ahem) stand up and shout that their rights are being infringed upon.

As if air travel is suddenly a right.  lol

[Craig.]

So are you saying that this screening applies to everyone except US residents? I understand that if I wished to fly to the US now I would have to give all my personal details to the airline who forward it to US security before the flight. If I didn't they wouldn't allow me on the plane.

US residents are subject to the same rules. your info is taken when you book the ticket, they just use the info given while booking your ticket and forward it on, there might be small print to tell you that is whats happening, but your not asked.

[Souichiro]

US residents are subject to the same rules. your info is taken when you book the ticket, they just use the info given while booking your ticket and forward it on, there might be small print to tell you that is whats happening, but your not asked.

Isn't that just the answer? of course there are mishaps but then again what would you rather have:

A few diverted flights or another 2500 dead?